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  • Writer's pictureFrancisco Mahfuz

E103. How to Find and Craft Your Most Useful Story with Nausheen I. Chen (Storypowers Lab #1)

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.

Francisco Mahfuz 0:05

Welcome to The Storypowers Podcast, the show about the power of stories, the people who tell them and why you shouldn't be doing it too. I'm your host, keynote speaker and storytelling coach Francisco Mahfuz. My guest today is Nausheen I. Chen is a keynote speaker and leadership communications coach, helping leaders speak with high impact on camera on stage and in person. She has spoken and train that TEDx TechCrunch Disrupt Startup Grind, the waggon, and many more places I wouldn't know how to pronounce. But believe me when I say that the list is very long. She's also a woman with no common sense, or self preservation instinct, because she's agreed to be the guinea pig to the very first story powers lab, where I'll help someone solve a business communication problem through story. We're going to figure out what story she needs. Dig up through her past for all the sordid embarrassing details, and then crafted together live. Well, not live for you. But live for us, which is just about the same thing, I guess. Is it going to work? Are you going to enjoy listening to it? There's only one way to find out. Ladies and gentlemen, Nausheen I. Chen. Nausheen, welcome to the show.

Nausheen I. Chen 1:17

Thank you so much, Francisco. It's a pleasure being here. It's great talking to you. And you've already set the tone and expectations are very low. So you know, we can only go up from here?

Francisco Mahfuz 1:43

So I call this thing the Storypowers Lab. This is not a name, I have, you know, focus group or thought about the integrate extent. But it is it is an experiment we have not done. I've done this plenty of times before, but I've not done it on the podcast. So what I'm what I'm hoping is going to happen is, you know, within the hour or so that most of my episodes run to, we'll be able to solve one major business problem for you when it comes to communication. But maybe if it goes really well we can solve a field. So for anyone who doesn't quite get what we're trying to do here, the whole idea is that a lot of people have to present themselves, they have to sell what they do. And in your case, being a being an entrepreneur or a coach, you have to do a lot of that. And often people struggle with that. Or they find that every time they do it, it's kind of improvised, or you know, they kind of have a bit of a pitch. But it's it might not be either effective enough, or they just don't feel that comfortable with it. So in your particular case, when I put out a call for for anyone that wanted to be to be part of this mad experiments, why did you want to do it. So this immediately jumped out at me from the LinkedIn screen. Because I'm in a transitory phase, I have been many different things in life, I was a corporate employee, I was in PR and marketing at a fortune 50 company, then I was a filmmaker kind of came out of left field. And then this year, I decided that I need to actually do what I love doing. I just didn't know what it was. I just think it had something to do with communications. And over the last few months, I've done a lot of soul searching as cringe worthy as that word is soul searching and inner discovery and realise that what I really love doing is public speaking, and delivering workshops. And I love the art of communication. So what I want to transition to in the next six months is a leadership communications coach. I'm already doing coaching, I'm already actually working with a few clients and I have worked with different kinds of leaders in the past to help them deliver things like product launch speeches, and product video talks. So in bits and pieces, I've done this work over time, but now because I'm transitioning to something new, I need a new origin story. And that's really why this really jumped out at me because I felt like this is something that I can really be very into. I am very into and I always wanted to work with you in one way or the other. So it was a perfect opportunity. That's fair enough. I must say that you said it. So searching is like a cringy thing. I don't think it's cringy I think it's just terrifying. I'm not sure I want to search in there. I'm trying to live an outward facing life

Francisco Mahfuz 1:28

Well, I find that that's the secret to life, right? The worst thing is, you want people to expect too much from you. And then you're bound to disappoint. And I've learned that from my first marriage. Oh, dear.

with those that I might find out when I look too deeply into what I'm doing. So what we need to figure out is the first thing is what is the problem, okay, because you know, I get what you're saying you need to find a new way to introduce yourself to people. Okay, now is the problem that you haven't like the faintest clue of what that is. or you've tried some stuff, but haven't quite managed to make it work. What do you think is happening now,

Nausheen I. Chen 5:07

I think I definitely have an idea of how to approach it. I feel like sometimes I'm too succinct, to way too concise, where I just say I'm a leadership communications coach, and I help leaders make high impact through speaking on stage on camera or in person. Maybe that's direct, but I'm not sure if it's attractive enough, doesn't have a story. Really, that's not a story. Or then if I start telling my story, it's just way too long. Because then I start with like, you know, public speaking was my first love, but I didn't know how to make a living out of it. I mean, do clients really want to know that? I'm not sure. So I'm kind of that's where I'm kind of stuck, where it's either just very, very short, but I feel like it's not memorable enough, or is just long winded story, which I'm happy to tell you, which I I don't know. I don't know if I should be going that route.

Francisco Mahfuz 5:57

Okay. So one thing you might be familiar with, if you because I know you followed my work some extent is, is this idea I've sort of inspired by by a guest on my show a long time ago called snacks. So he had the three different types of very short introduction, introductory stories, I kind of tweaked them a little bit and call them elevator stories. And it's this idea of the five second story, which is essentially, what you use to replace your job title. And it's the first thing people say, what do you do? And I would say, you know, I help people become more interesting than Netflix. So I'm kind of going for something obscure, because I think it's kind of boring to say, I help leaders do this through that, right, I think there's just a bit too much on the nose. So I like something kind of obscure that makes people say, Okay, what the hell does that mean? Or how do you do that? And then that takes you to the 32nd story, where we just talk a little bit about the problem, right? You know, you know, a lot of people are really good at their job. They're really passionate about the doable helping their clients, but they don't really know anything about marketing. They don't like any salesy stuff. So they're really struggling to get new clients or to get people on board with their ideas and grow either their businesses or in in their, in their professions. So I help them use the power of stories to become more interesting, the Netflix and grow professionally. So that's kind of the 32nd story, which is, you know, you introduce the problem, you're trying to make people ideally identify with that problem, which is why you might have a few different design stories. And that will be what you're using the vast majority of cases. And then there is the one minute story, which is an actual story. And that one you will use when you have the time to use it. So I use that. I use mine all the time, when I'm a guest and a podcast, when I am doing some sort of workshop, I often start with that in mind, it's and I'm not going to repeat it here because I've told this a million times in this show. But it's essentially the story of me being called to speak in front of my classroom when I was 12 years old. And then I'm kind of terrified. I'm also I wasn't a popular kid. So how is this gonna go? But then I think you know, what if people liked my story, and then I tell a story, they like it. And at that moment, I feel like the most popular kid in the school. And that is how I found out about the power of storytelling. So I don't tell that when someone just asked me what I do, but I use it when I have a little more time. And there's a longer version of that that can be part of a workshop or, or a keynote. So the way I want to do this with you is we will leave the super pragmatic stuff for the end, because I think you already have a five second story. And yours is I help people speak like leaders, not bosses, which is your headline on LinkedIn. So that's a good one. Because people go okay, well, what's the difference? Like what exactly does that mean? We could probably figure out what your 32nd story is right now. But for the one minute story, I want to have a bigger origin story. And then we can pick the most appropriate one minute moment out of that it won't take a minute, it will probably take 3040 seconds to tell. But it's also useful if you have the bigger one. Because the bigger one becomes part of your brand. You know, it's how might be your about section might be how you start a workshop or a keynote might be when you were in a call with a with a potential client. You might tell a one or two minute version of how you got into this stuff. And then once you have that making it shorter is not it's not that difficult. So you said something that I wanted to sort of brainstorm together you said, do people want me to go into a story when when I'm talking to them? So what do you think like would they want you to go into story would they not want you to go into the store? Why would you possibly tell someone a minute or two minutes long story at that sort of stage in the relationship?

Nausheen I. Chen 10:06

Yeah, that's a great question. And I love how you broke it down into like a five second teaser, right? If like a five second job teaser, which leads to a 15 or 32nd story, which then could potentially lead to a one minute story. It's a great point, I think that the only times where the story would really be relevant is when I really want to make sure that people understand what is the unique value that I'm offering to them? What is it that I'm really bringing to the table? Why should they work with me and not someone else? And that's really where I struggle a little bit. Because I feel like I have a lot to say. And I feel like I'm, I mean, I'm convinced that I bring a lot of value. But how do I bring that conviction out in the story, because the story is also about me, perhaps it's not that relevant to them, perhaps it would resonate more with them if a story, the story was about someone like them. So those are the kinds of kinds of questions that I struggle with. But yes, that's the context that I'm thinking of when I'm talking to a potential client, for example, in my case, it would be a leader who wants to really work on their communication skills really work on their public speaking skills on their, on their on their public persona, and someone who really wants to become a public persona, and they don't know where where to start. So that would be someone that I really love working with. But when I'm talking to them, what kind of story should I be telling when I tell them like, this is what I do?

Francisco Mahfuz 11:32

That's a very good question. Because because this is something a lot of people get wrong, right? So they don't know is this whole story about like, you know, nobody cares about your story, which is nonsense. But what is really important to figure out is, what is it you're trying to do? Okay, because there's different stories you tell at different times. So if you're telling what I normally call a help story of you helping someone else, that is a very powerful sales tool, okay, so success stories are are the cool version of a reviewer testimonial. And they you using them to show someone? Listen, I've helped people like you have had success with that in any chair way to kind of pitch in a non salesy way. But that's not what you would do when you're just getting to know someone. So if they're in your profile, if they're listening to you on a podcast, there's a few different things you can be doing. Right. So one of them is you're trying to show them that you're relatable, and that you're a little bit like them, or that you were a little bit like them, that's that's the most traditional way for a coach to use an origin story is, where you are now is where I was, maybe that's because you didn't know like, I was struggling with the same problem. I didn't know how to fix it, then I learned how to fix it. And now I can teach you what I learned. Okay, so it's a very traditional way of looking at an origin story the other way. So I tend to think of this as the power and the purpose, right? So it might be about how you get the power to help people. So again, we're talking about skills and how you gain them, or how you were always talented in that particular area. Mine is a bit like that. But it might also be the purpose, right? What is this thing that made you want to help people or what was this existential crisis you were going through at some point in your life that you've overcome, that the people you're trying to talk to will find relatable? Okay, so you know that a lot of coaches who work with people who are trying to change careers, their origin stories, probably going to have a career change of some kind, or at least a big life change, because that's what you got to basically say, I've been where you are, I know how to get you out. If you think of mine, to be super specific on mine, mine has three aspects, mine is the whole, I'm being called to speak in front of 100, a whole bunch of people, it's kind of a terrifying moment. I think a lot of people can relate to the, you know, fear of public speaking. Then I talk about how I wasn't a popular kid. And I didn't feel like I fit in a feeling that a lot of people have or have had at some point in their lives. And then I talk about how it turns out, I was actually pretty good telling stories, and from an early age, which suggests that after all these years, I'm an expert or something. Okay, so there's three different levels. I'm hitting with that story. You don't need to hit three different things. But we need to find what is the one that works for your audience, but also the one that can be backed up by your life story. Some life stories give themselves more to one thing or the other. So the first step we need to do here is we need to figure out what is the main audience you want to talk to. If we don't know that, then it's very difficult to tailor that story. What's the focus of the story? So if you had to pick one audience, either the one you want to work with more, or the one you think you're more likely to talk To or to be exposed to through workshops or keynotes or podcasts or however you you come across people, what would you say that audience is,

Nausheen I. Chen 15:09

that audience would be a senior leader who has accomplished a lot internally, but they are still terrified of public speaking. And they are at a stage now where they would like to, or they're being asked to represent the company or to work on their own personal brand, outside of the company, and work on getting more speaking opportunities work on really creating this public presence through speaking,

Francisco Mahfuz 15:37

okay. Would you say that these are people who, who want this growth in their career like they want to grow, but they have this this obstacle that is public speaking, or that wouldn't necessarily be the case,

Nausheen I. Chen 15:50

you definitely want to grow. These are definitely people that feel that they have a lot to offer in terms of their experience their expertise in their industry, and they just don't know if they have the right words, if they have the right way of expressing what they need to say to an external audience. They don't know where to start, it's all very intimidating. It's like a black box when it comes to public speaking. And they have had some issues in the past, it could be just simple stage fright, or feeling like they repeat things too much. They have too many filler words, feeling like they're not making the right impact. A lot of the people a lot of the clients I talk with have kind of like this fear of not being able to answer the questions that are asked. So not being seen as the authority that they know they are, but they don't quite know how to express it.

Francisco Mahfuz 16:39

Okay. All right. So the the odd views approach here is one that knowing what I know about you, is probably not going to work for you. Because the obvious approaches here would be when were you terrified of public speaking, that would be the obvious, right? If you were someone who are terrified of public speaking, and you've gotten over that, that would be a fairly obvious origin story. But understanding your background, you always liked getting in front of people. And speaking, then the other sort of obvious approach would be the not so much the fear of public speaking, but the skills required for it. So you know, maybe you weren't someone who's afraid, but you sucked at it, like you will really, really bad at it. And then at any one being able to achieve the things you wanted to achieve because of it. It doesn't need to be that deep. But sometimes just like, we would need a time where you were just really bad. And then you got better. And that allowed you to get the things you wanted. So maybe, maybe that's possible, maybe it's not okay. The third one, which will take more work, but it might be the one we have to go with is, is this idea of an obstacle, right. So to grow as a person, and to become who you really want to become, you need to do something that you feel inadequate, you're afraid necessarily, but it's like, for some reason, you're blocked, right? So you really want to grow in your career, you really need you want to become a better leader, leader, you want to become an influence in your in your industry. But there is this obstacle in the way. And in their particular case, the obstacle is their fear of public speaking or the lack of ability of public speaking or, you know, whatever it might be, in your case, there was an obstacle in your way from becoming who you wanted to become, which was a public speaker and working with public speaking. And in your case, there will be something that stopped you from doing that for all these years. Okay. And maybe again, I don't know, but it might be impostor syndrome, it might be that you were trying to please other people instead of doing the stuff that was for you. So again, we would have to figure out exactly what that is. But that would be the hardest route to go around the origin story. But if it is the truth, then that's the truth. It's just a case of positioning it carefully enough. So we know that one is out because you weren't ever afraid of speaking in public is to out as well. Are you did you ever suck?

Nausheen I. Chen 19:17

I think I was definitely very average when I started. I don't know if I sucked. I can't I mean, for sure if I see myself like in the past, there were different kinds of strengths that I had, but I was also a different person. And I've kind of captured myself at different moments in time. Unfortunately, I don't have some of the very early stuff that I did, because I've been I've been public speaking and delivering workshops since maybe I was 2324. But I have no recordings of that, like between the ages of 24 to maybe 29. I don't really have anything I just know I did a lot of stuff. And the earliest stuff that I had, that I have of me like on camera is really funny. It's really silly. So Well, because I got into public speaking actually through improv at that time. It's actually weird I got I first got into radio, then I got into training, because at Procter and Gamble, I was one of the youngest corporate trainers. And I loved that because anyone who's been in the company for like two years, can train to be a trainer if they're interested. So I was really interested. So it was radio than it was training. And it was training in leadership, communication skills, presentation skills, time management. And then it was after that it was improv. So I stumbled into improv and stand up comedy. And I ended up writing, directing and producing these really crappy, crappy comedy segments on this late night comedy TV show, ended up making some really also equally crappy short films, and then ended up working with actors, and then eventually business leaders to help them you know, deliver their speeches on camera. So it would be hard for me to kind of, I'm sure, at some point, it was not very easy. No, I'm sure at some point, it wasn't very effective. It was always easy, in a way for me, because I was I've actually traced this back. I don't know if this would resonate with you. But I was always the kid in my family who was like, pushed to the forefront. I was always like, the little, I don't know, like the little prize puppy. Like the little show dog was like, no, she recites something for us. No sheen, tell the joke. No, she tell us what happened at school. And I would just be like, Okay, I'm gonna do this. Now.

Francisco Mahfuz 21:32

I didn't have that as I didn't have that in my family that I can remember. But I had that in school. I was always the one who when we did group work, someone had to present it. And you know, the teachers wanted everybody to present a little bit. But always there was one kid that presented more than anybody else. And that was always there was always me, you know, when I thought remember that? I thought, you know, but is it? Is it dishonest for me to try and say that me getting in front of the class was terrifying. But the truth is, it was because he was like, out there, she wanted me to tell a story that like I had written and not, you know, like, I wasn't presenting a work that I had practised. Like, I never told the story in front of anyone, it's very different to talk about how the Portuguese discovered the Brazil and talk about like this thing that you've invented, that might be horrible, but might might not be. Okay, so let's park that to one side, right? Because we don't want to do is we don't want to, we don't want to torture, the truth. To try and find Well, well, we can kind of say you sucked, when it's because it might be true, but it might not be and we you know that the truer it is, the more conviction you you have any talent. So so let's just put that one aside. For now. I've seen your story about how for 17 years, you did all sorts of different careers, because people in your life did them. And you never did the thing that you really wanted, which was, you know, become a public speaker and work with public speaking. So I know that, but let me just understand, if you knew early on, that you wanted to do it. What was stopping you? Why weren't you doing it.

Nausheen I. Chen 23:21

So I grew up as an only child and with a single mom. So immediately, and this was a developing country. So immediately, you can tell that I you know, I grew up in a very kind of pragmatic environment where being pragmatic, earning a living, making sure that you're always self sufficient and financially independent, were huge goals. And they were kind of drilled and drummed into me by my mom, who was also very fiercely independent. So because of that, that's probably the number one concern that I had growing up. And when I first got a job in the corporate world, you know, there was it totally made sense to go that go down that path. And after that, when I did have, you know, what I fondly call my quarter life crisis, where I just broke away from everything. I was still pragmatic, and I still wanted to figure out something concrete that I could do that I could be paid for another time. I thought it was filmmaking, I think I might have known that I would love to figure out how to be a public speaker and how to work in public speaking maybe sometime in my mid or late 20s. But I never had the conviction that I could make a living off of it till now.

Francisco Mahfuz 24:34

So what I'm hearing is, is a couple of things. The one of them is there was something he wanted to do, but there were two two obstacles to it. One of them is you just don't know if you're good enough. So that's that's the depth the conviction part, like you want to do it, but am I good enough? Is it going to be a massive risk? Is it going to be a mistake? Can I actually pull this off? So that that's one part of it. The other part of it is what you grew up to believe was the right way to live your life or to be an adult. And most of these other things you did sort of tick that box. And you know, I'm supporting myself, it's a serious job. This is what I need to be doing with my life. And the thing you wanted to do, you know, the thing that will make you feel authentic in what you're doing that would make you feel like okay, this is it, this is what I'm supposed to be doing that didn't tick that box, or at least you felt it didn't tick that box because of how, how you grew up. Okay. Does that make sense?

Nausheen I. Chen 25:36

Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of it was also that I didn't live a very introspective life, I was always more or less than extrovert, I was always the person who wanted to have a lot of adventures. And I did, and just, you know, be out and about and go out and experience life. But the flip side was that I just never spent enough time by myself. So I actually never took the time to reflect on what it is that would actually bring me joy and what has brought me joy in the past, everything just kind of seemed like an equal level of okay. And it was only when I really deeply thought about it that I realised, wait a minute, being on stage. That's where I feel the most joy. That's where I feel the most comfortable. That's the one thing that I am not terrified by. That's the one thing where I don't feel like I'm going to let people down. And throughout my life, my presentations have always been the things that people have appreciated. Sometimes, ironically, more than my actual work. This one time I was I was in Tenerife, at a film festival. My film was one of the films selected to be in the festival, I was ecstatic. I was the only person there that was from my side of the world. And you had to go and present your film to an audience of investors and TV stations so that they would see if they wanted to buy it. And my presentation was flawless. Like the people came up to me afterwards, because there were these booths, and you could then have one on one conversations. So people came up to me and they said, your presentation was great. And then we saw the trailer of your film, and it sucked, they made no bones about it. They were just like your your trailer was such a letdown. And this is not something we want to invest in. But we wanted to stop by to tell you, we loved your presentation.

Francisco Mahfuz 27:23

Okay, so this might be very useful, because what you just described is someone who can get up in front of other people, impress them, make them expect good things from you. But then the actual work was not to that same level, is it fair to say that a lot of the people that you work with and want to work more with have the opposite problem to you, their work is good. Their work is probably one of the best things that they have about themselves. But either because they don't get up there to present or because they present so badly. People think last of the work. And in that in many cases that could lead to them not having opportunities to actually show anyone that they're good.

Nausheen I. Chen 28:09

That's a very interesting way of looking at it. I hadn't thought about that before. Yeah, yeah. It could be that people have the opposite problem. Because that yeah, I always felt like, you know, I, when clients would talk to me, I always felt like I wish I had stage fright, because I mean, I could definitely sympathise but I cannot put myself in their shoes. Of course, I wouldn't tell them this because I don't want them to feel that I'm, you know, elevating myself or being arrogant about it. But yeah, I always found it difficult to relate to stage fright or feeling nervous on the stage.

Francisco Mahfuz 28:35

What I've typically have done to describe myself, when it comes to that it says, I'm one of those weird people that like being from the IANA stage, like your normal, so you, like probably feel a bit more terrified than I ever did. And and, you know, that's my, that's my way of getting that across without coming across like, Well, no, I, I do not feel happy in front of audiences. I mean, I think that's a definitely a great story. It might not necessarily be the origin story, but but that's a great story, because I think it does fit with the people you're trying to talk to. Something else I just wanted to understand a little better is, you said you did a lot of work at Procter and Gamble. And you were doing training on a lot of things, including speaking and presentation skills with corporate people. So what was your experience with them in the sense of, okay, so this bit word they often terrified of speaking, or really bad at speaking, if they were, how was that affecting their careers? So I mean, what I'm really asking is, have you when you were there, did you see something very similar to what you're seeing now with the people you want to work with?

Nausheen I. Chen 29:49

Makes sense? I think there are two kinds of problems that we're talking about here. One is just stage fright, which is literally just like paralysis like you said in one shape, one way shape. form, where people just kind of hesitate to even put themselves out there that these are people that are experts in their field, but they have never actually ventured out of their comfort zone. And then there are the average speakers. And that's a whole separate problem in itself. These are people that actually think there are right. But they could be so much better, they could be so much more impactful. These are people that just don't have impactful body language, they don't know how to really deliver with conviction and belief, I think for Procter and Gamble, because it was definitely full of extremely ambitious and just well rounded, well experienced people. It is definitely the second problem that there were a lot of average presenters, I don't think they really had stage fright, because they had to kind of get up and perform in so many different ways, especially in terms of meetings and presentations. But there were a lot of super average speakers that just weren't using their full potential. So their their message was getting lost, their message was not being delivered in the best possible way. Now, most of the time, I did one off trainings. So you would know like, it's kind of difficult for me to tell you the before and the after of it, I wouldn't know if what I did made long term impact. And I was also, you know, training alongside my full time job there, because it's what Procter and Gamble does, has internal trainers. So every trainer is actually a full time employee doing their own day job. So it's hard to really figure out the impact.

Francisco Mahfuz 31:28

Let's not worry so much about the impact. What is the situation with? So what is the problems that that they were suffering from? Because they either were afraid of speaking or weren't that great to speaking? So I'm not bothered about how did that get fixed at this point? But like, was it clear to you at the time we're looking back, that because these people weren't good speakers? Or weren't courageous speakers, or whatever we're gonna call it that that was detrimental to their career or to their well being in some way?

Nausheen I. Chen 31:59

Yeah, the problems would be that their message was getting lost, and their presence, their onstage presence was unmemorable. Those would be the two big problems.

Francisco Mahfuz 32:11

Okay. And do you know, did any of them tell you? Or did you hear throughout the company, that, you know, what are these people that are not, we're not getting projects approved, were they not getting the career advancement that they wanted. So I'm just looking for some real life consequence of that, or other than, I'm just not, you know, when I present this kind of crap, because you know, a lot of people will be kind of crap and present. And I would argue the vast majority of people are kind of crap in the present. But it's not always obvious that that's a problem, because the vast majority of your work kind of crap, and they present, you just, quote unquote, normal, right? In some cases, people have to be better to be able to advance in their career or to stop suffering all the time. So in the end, that's kind of what I'm looking for. It doesn't need to be that how they would have grown in the company, had they been better. But it could be that they had to present on a regular basis. And every time they had to present they were a nervous wreck. And it was days and days of suffering. Because of that. And you know, that's good, you know, as well, that you know, needs to be, I think we're just looking for something that is not mad, right? It's like, oh, yeah, it's kind of crap. I wish I was our better. But if I'm not that, that's fine.

Nausheen I. Chen 33:24

I see what you mean that there have to be some real world consequences to actually being average or being crappy, or crappy average, I think that not having an impactful presence definitely affects your growth in the company. I don't know if I can say that. I have like specific case studies from that time, but definitely, some of the clients that I'm working with now, I can definitely say that they're, they do feel that if they were able to build up their impact, during the times when they're speaking in public, when they're addressing an internal and external audience, they would they feel like they would be able to grow more. These are just people that feel like, you know, they either they feel, for example, that they could be passed over for promotions, people that feel that they're not able to really impress, they're not able to seize the opportunity, when, for example, they get an audience with the CEO, they are not able to seize the opportunity and have like the right words to say at the right time in the right way that they can really leave a lasting impression. So they've lost an opportunity. So definitely, like not not having that impactful presence when you're presenting which is such, it's such an obvious time really to have that presence because all eyes are on you. It's a great time. You don't have to fight for attention. But not being able to seize that opportunity is such a shame because it's these really you're losing out on something that you can build over time.

Francisco Mahfuz 34:50

So placing that story you told me before in time, was that halfway through your filmmaking was that near the end of the time you were film you're a filmmaker. When in the festival in Tenerife, it was near the beginning. Okay, so instead of taking the cue that maybe this is not your biggest ellenton life, you're carried on for another few years. How did you get out of the filmmaking? Or the last thing you were doing into this? What was the? Sorry? Just talk me through that, that moment of change. What was the catalyst? What was going on? To what what pushed you over the edge?

Nausheen I. Chen 35:27

Yes. So that was really, really recent. This year, since last year, I've been on this journey of really changing my life and turning my life around, all of it has to do with fine, you know, being being close to 40. Being at a stage in life where I feel like, you know, experimentation is great, but you have to be building something, you have to be moving towards something deliberately. And for 39 years of my life, I had not been moving towards a goal, I had just been going down rabbit holes. So I had this, you know, reality check, talk with myself. And I told myself that if I don't figure out what it is that I really want to do, and move towards that no one else will do it for me. In fact, other people have been doing it for me. And that is what I had been doing, just kind of going by what other people thought was good for me, and never really feeling it never really been there fully, even though I committed and I worked really hard. But I never figured out what it was that I was working hard for. So it was just the result of having this talk with myself and telling myself that it's about time that I really do the things that I love that I would love to do. And if I feel okay, at least I tried. So really kind of telling myself that I've already failed in other things in life that I didn't care about. So why not fail in something that I do care about? That would make sense. Now she

Francisco Mahfuz 36:50

wasn't there something that pushed you over the edge? Because normally there is the case, right? Normally, there's something that like what you're doing, you have a really bad day at the thing you've been doing, and or it's just accumulation of bad days. And at some point, you go like, you know, this is just not, this is just not right. Okay. So in my case, there's some similarities to a story in that money and being able to support myself was very important to me growing up because my family didn't have that much money. So a lot of the decisions I took in my life war, because I was, subconsciously, I think, looking for that more sure thing, you know, when I could have done more exciting things I was like, but there's this kind of steady, boring job that I think that's what I should be doing, instead of trying for things that are riskier. And I did that for a very long time, I did it for long after I figured out that I liked speaking in public and that I was I was decent at it. And what pushed me over the edge was was finding out I was going to have another kid, because having one kid and being a grown up is not enough for you to learn how that process works. A friend of mine loves calling the analysis moments where you're something changes as that moment of big changes, like the veil falls from your eyes and you go like this is it right? If I don't do this, now, I'm never going to do it. Now it doesn't need to be something dramatic. But usually there is something that either pushes you over the edge, or puts you on the road that leads you to change. So you know, it might for a lot of people is a is a life change is children's marriages, changing country or anything like that. And a pandemic, to a lot of other people is, is just something that happens in their current life or professional life. So either the job is not working out, you're missing out on promotions that you thought you were gonna get, or the opposite, like you get a promotion or you get an offer for a better job. And you're not excited at all about it because you realise it's not what you want. Or, or it may just be that you do the thing that you love, kind of for as a hobby in one particular day. And it just so excited about it that it makes you realise why am I not doing this all the time. It's when it's a moment more or less like that, then I'm looking for, because it's always more exciting if we can if we can illustrate the process with one moment in time, and not with like a timeline.

Nausheen I. Chen 39:23

I understand that it makes for more exciting, more glamorous story.

Francisco Mahfuz 39:27

It's not so much that it's a glamorous story is that you can tell a story as a timeline. And sometimes that's the way you have to do it. But you can't make a timeline vivid and memorable. Or you just can't write you can talk about how for 17 years you did this thing because your husband did it. You did this other thing because a friend did do and that's that's a nice cohesive story. But what you want is like an action scene. That is the one bit that they will people will remember because that's probably what you're going to use if you do it Say a one minute story, the timeline doesn't work as well for that. So the scene where you either screwed up completely the thing that you shouldn't have been doing to begin with, or you were really, really good at the thing you meant to be doing, or you know, whatever it is. And again, I do think that the being really good at the presentation and sacking the movie that can work for that there must be options because your life is made up of moments, your life is not a timeline. It's just a cast question of digging them out from from inside your brain. So we can so we can use

Nausheen I. Chen 40:35

them. So I would say that, in a lot of ways I have lived a life of change, I have gotten used to change from a very young age when you know, my dad died when I was 10. I found out I was adopted when I was 18. I quit by my marriage, my you know, belief system, my my corporate life at 27. I change a moved countries at 29. And then again at 32. Between the ages of 11 to 22. I think I moved about 17 times. So I have had a life of change. And I've had a life where a lot of external factors have brought about changes in life. I feel that I'm almost at a point where I've internalised that and I've kind of been able to propel myself towards change, almost by giving myself these talks, and talking to myself in in a way that motivates me to take action. It's, for example, how I gave up smoking. It's how I gave up junk food. It's how I started to learn French because I have been wanting to become French for the longest time my husband is French. And the only thing standing in between me and becoming French which was my dream was meat learning French

Francisco Mahfuz 41:50

do you have to become rude as well? Or that's just the Parisian?

Nausheen I. Chen 41:54

So he's not from Paris. He's from the south.

Francisco Mahfuz 41:58

I'm not sure if that's part of the of the classes, right? Learn how to you know, enjoy wine properly and for analysis. probably enjoy the stinky cheese known to mankind and be rude to strangers. Maybe Maybe it's an advanced class Parisians get a bad rap to get a pass but like in America, you have to think sing the anthem or something. They've been fairies, you have to be rude to strangers.

Nausheen I. Chen 42:20

Pass check. To nice,

Francisco Mahfuz 42:23

go the go the Italian or Portuguese or something?

Nausheen I. Chen 42:29

So, yeah, or Spanish? Yes. I think that somewhere along the way, I somehow picked up this art. I don't know how I did it. But I can pretty much talk to myself, you know, in the voice of my high school principal, and tell myself like no machine. Enough is enough. This is not the way to do it. You're gonna have to make this change. No one else is doing it for you. So get to it. Just get to it.

Francisco Mahfuz 42:55

So you've changed just about everything about yourself. But the one thing that was a constant, which was how he loved public speaking, it took you almost 40 years to change.

Nausheen I. Chen 43:07

Yeah. When you put it like that. It makes sense. It's so ironic.

Francisco Mahfuz 43:12

Yeah. In the in the question. That is why because you did talk about your mom and about how you know there's this pragmatic thing about is this the video you've done non pragmatic jobs, like being a filmmaker is not the most pragmatic way of earning money. So

Nausheen I. Chen 43:27

I was a commercial filmmaker, commercial filmmakers earn more than then the the creative starving artists, sadly,

Francisco Mahfuz 43:35

my brother's a commercial filmmaker. So I'm aware of that world. But but it's still not the easiest way to make money compared to some of the other stuff that you I think you had those experiences in the past and the corporate world is probably a much easier way to make money than that. But okay, so let me just get back to what I was trying to get to or Gasset maybes so you haven't had trouble changing. Changing was not something you had issues with. But this thing this thing that you've known you wanted for a very long time, you you take a new the longest time to you know, they get taken a long time to change your life to do the thing you know, normally wanted for the longest time and and and the the armchair psychologist in me suggests that because because that wasn't something you wanted to change there is there is a bigger fear of changing your life to for this to happen to do this. Because this is not something you were willing to eventually change and let go of given that it's one of the only things perhaps that it has been a constant in your identity throughout all this time. My completely off the mark.

Nausheen I. Chen 44:53

No, no, you're you're quite close the I'm sure the armchair psychologist could be a great second job for you. So point, probably as part of your job anyway, as you know, creating stories and helping people create stories. Yeah, I think that I tried a lot of things in life as an experiment, just to see what they would turn out to be. And if I failed at them, that's okay. Doesn't really hurt me because I didn't want that in the first place. I did try. And I did commit to it. And I did put in the work. But if it doesn't work out, all right, cool, I can move on to the next thing. But maybe public speaking was the one thing I didn't want to move on from it, which is why I kept it alive. You know, it was like this burning flame, this little candle for like, since I was 22. When I started training, I would, since then, I found so many different opportunities just to be on stage, mostly for free. Just to give talks and workshops wherever I could, because it was just always something I loved doing. But yeah, it could be that it was just so close to me that I didn't I actually didn't want to risk trying to make a living off of it and then failing miserably.

Francisco Mahfuz 45:59

Yeah, because the failure that actually matters, yes, failure in other stuff is I gave it a go wasn't for me move on. And this one is like, well, hold on. You know, since I was a kid, this was the one thing I knew that I wanted to do. And if I fail at this, then what's left?

Nausheen I. Chen 46:15

The one thing I'm good at, you know, you can you can take away filmmaking from me, I think I'm just an average filmmaker, you know, you can take away managerial, corporate managerial experience from me. But if you take away my communication skills, I would just feel that I have done nothing in life.

Francisco Mahfuz 46:33

Okay, so where I think we are, is this right? The thread that I see from the beginning, is that, you know, that annoying kid that on family reunions, like gets in front of everybody and wants to do a performance, or wants to sing or dance. And I think most people know that I kid, you were that annoying kid. And ever since you were, you know, ever since you knew yourself to be anyone, the one thing you knew about yourself was that you wanted to speak in public, even though you knew that from a very early age, you never actually committed to that perhaps because you grew up with your mom being very sensible and wanting you to know you have raised by a single mom, you want to add her she wanted you to not struggle so much in life as perhaps she did supporting you. So you can get a real serious job, and you got into corporate and the first chance they gave you you started training other people on how to present banter and speak better, still somehow didn't realise that this was a career that perhaps you should follow. And then you know, a friend is that a friend of yours you only got as a friend of yours wanted to get I was in marketing, you're getting marketing because of that. Then someone else got into what was the second career

Nausheen I. Chen 47:50

filmmaking. After that in the middle was improv and improv and other things along the side theatre.

Francisco Mahfuz 47:56

Yeah, so you change you change careers more than once. Because other people are doing them it seems sensible things to do. And even though you were doing improv and doing all sorts of other stuff still didn't make sense to you that this was the career you should be following. Any, any, you are so oblivious to it that when you enter your very first film festival, in Tenerife, you did a presentation before the movie, then they show the teaser, and people came to you to say, Wow, that presentation was amazing. But your work sucks. I was really let down by that trailer. And instead of thinking, maybe the presentation is the thing I'm good at. And maybe that's what I'm gonna be focusing on, you still didn't do it. And that went on for a very long time. And then this is perhaps the bit where I'm kind of missing is I changed careers. I stopped smoking, I change religion, I change country, I change husbands, I change religion, the I changed the length and colour of my hair. The only thing that never changed, was loving public speaking, wanting to do it, but not actually doing it. And then as I got close to my 40s, I decided enough, now is about time I change. And now here you are. So that's sort of the thread. Right? And I think there is something I think you need. Ideally, you need at least one or two more moments, to bring that to life. And you have to make it a little tighter. I think you could definitely tell that from beginning to end, in maybe two minutes, two and a half minutes, something along those lines. So if you ever wanted to do it from beginning to end, you could do it and that's more or less what I think that story would look like. Where I think you will need more strategic thinking here is, is because you're trying to appeal to a specific audience. Right. And I think that from all the things we've seen, I mean, I I don't think that your audience will necessarily relate to this idea of I've always wanted to do a thing, but I didn't, I don't think there's going to be them. They won't, I don't think relate to ours, the weird kid that always wanted to be in front of other people. So I think that from the things we looked at, somewhat surprisingly, that story about the film festival, that's the one that I think creates what one is pretty, it's fun. It's kind of memorable, we can make it more memorable. But it leads you very easily into saying, I was great at presenting, my work wasn't good enough. Most people I work with have the opposite problem. Their work is great. But people don't think it's great, because they can't present it. And that means that they suffer this way they suffer that way they suffer this other way. I think that for a lot of people that will make absolute sense. And that is the one minute story. It's not a particularly personal revealing one, I mean, you can add a few lines in there, we can work on them a little bit now to just figure out how you share a little bit more of yourself in there. So it's a little more, a little more personal. But it doesn't need to be your whole journey in life to get the impact you want. So that's with with what we've covered, I think, for the audience you want to speak to, I think that would be what I would go with. Now. Thoughts,

Nausheen I. Chen 51:31

that makes a lot of sense. Beginning a story that does not necessarily represent the origin doesn't necessarily represent what I'm doing. Like doesn't necessarily isn't necessarily super recent, but is is indicative of that skill set that I'm showcasing? It makes a lot of sense. And as you were talking about that story, I realised, actually, this is a recurring pattern. This was a recurring pattern during my filmmaking. So it really bolster bolsters your point like machine, what, why were you not thinking about this. So there were actually quite a few times where I was able to get as deals. Because eventually, of course, if you're the entrepreneur, you eventually become the salesperson, which was something I hated. But I would be the one pitching to the clients. And they would love the pitch, they would love the way I presented it and how passionate I was when I talked about it. And some of those clients were pretty disappointed with the work that we did. But it was my pitch that got us got us there, which actually ended up making me feel horrible, because I felt like such an imposter, thinking like, I'm just tricking these people. I don't want to be doing that.

Francisco Mahfuz 52:39

Yeah, I don't think we necessarily want to emphasise too much that your work is always worse than then your presentations. I think that even that story, the story about the film festival, that can be more of an origin story, if we add a couple of details. So for example, one way to start that story is with the you know, do you know, that annoying kid in family reunions that does this, this and that. I was that kid, like for for ever since I know myself, I liked getting on stage I like speaking. But I was too dumb to realise that that was actually a real career. And I think the worst moment, the worst moment was when I was a filmmaker, I you know, it was one of the many careers I did. And I know and bla bla, and then you just tell the story. And then just before you transition into the people I work with now, you would say something like, and even then I didn't learn, right, it still took me a few years to realise that this is what I was really good at and what I should be, you know, the presentation side was what I really should be doing, most of the clients I work with, have the opposite problem. So you can make it more of an origin story. Because you have like I've had this as a kid I didn't, I didn't realise it about myself, it took a long time to realise. But you still get that in there. So when you say I work, socked presentations are great, now my clients have the opposite problem of mine. So so that's how I would make that a little more of an origin story. But still trying to focus on this is the problem of the in a way that that's it's kind of a mix between an origin story and in like a help story or a success story, because you're still making it about the problem your your clients have. And while at the same time giving them a little bit of yourself and your sense of humour and how you don't take yourself overly seriously. And in also saying, I've been good at this stuff for a very long time. Right? Because you're saying I've been doing this since I was a kid. Many, many years ago, people were complimenting on how good I was as a speaker. And if you had more time, you could say you could add stuff before the Tenerife historic. So you'd say, you know, I, I was a little kid blah, blah. And I loved it for all my life. Like I got into a corporate job. First thing I did after a year or two I started training people In the company involving speaking, and then I did this other thing on the side, I was doing improv so you could add things to show how you've been doing this for a long time, you're an expert, but at same time, kind of stay self deprecating and go. But I was such a doofus that I didn't like it, like it was staring me in the face. And I didn't, I didn't take it seriously. And again, this is all about you, this is not nothing you will really want people necessarily to relate to, but maybe some of them might relate to in the sense of like, you know, what I'm, what I've done for a long part, for a long time in my life wasn't what I wanted to do. So that's how I would make that story more of an origin story. Okay, so, alright, now the, let's try and try and assemble it. Okay, now the long one, you can you can, I think you can assemble in your own time and try to tell like a longer version of it in your own time. And if you do that, we might decide that we want to sort of record that. And I can, like add as a postscript to the podcast at some point. But what I want to try and do is get those three elevator stories in place. So we know. So we walk out of here with something very concrete. So we had the five second story, which is I help people speak like a leader, not a boss, the 32nd story, it starts with, you know, describe what your client's problems is, and tell me how you help them. So just just to that 32nd, one, you know, most of the people I work with, and now tell me what their problem is. And then tell me how you help.

Nausheen I. Chen 56:32

You know, there are a lot of people that would love to speak in public, but they just feel that they don't have the right confidence, they don't have the right tools, they don't have a clue as to where to begin. And where I come in is that I help them figure out how to how to deliver their message in the most impactful way, on a public stage or on camera. Yes, I was trying to encapsulate everything with the public stage. But yeah, yeah,

Francisco Mahfuz 56:57

on a stage on a stage and Kevin chambers, this line, because it's part of your brand. That bit right. And it's a good way to explain. The one thing I would suggest as a tweak there is there are some people who love would love to speak in public, would they love to speak in public, or it's important for them to speak in public, because there are different things like they, they really have to speak in public, if they want to grow in their careers or grow their businesses is there a different things are people hate the idea of public speaking, but they will never get anywhere, if they don't speak in public. So I would just maybe tweak that to something a little less, you don't eliminate all the people that generally hate the idea of public speaking,

Nausheen I. Chen 57:35

they're more of them. You're right,

Francisco Mahfuz 57:37

the one minute story is tell us a little bit of that story we just put together and then Anne was saying, you know, a lot of people that I work with have the opposite problem. This is what are happening, blah, blah, blah. And so I help them do this, this, this and that, now that we kind of have that put together, what I'm trying to figure out to go back to is the is the headline. So the five second story, because the five second story is not actually explained in the rest, like this whole speak like a leader, not a boss is a different path to go down, then the one we're going down now. So I think we need a different five second story for this.

Nausheen I. Chen 58:17

So I used to have speak as a leader speak like a leader, not a boss. And just very recently, over the last week or two weeks, I slightly tweaked it to speak as a leader. So not like but as speak as a leader on camera on stage or in person. So I've removed the not a boss, just for now, just as again, as an experiment to see if this because this I felt was way more clear, kind of catchy, but clear.

Francisco Mahfuz 58:44

I'm not saying by any means that you need to change your headline. I'm just saying that when it comes to the when it comes to the to this particular story, we want to say something that leads into the story, right? So one way of doing that would be saying something like, I'm just trying to I'm just trying to get on hold, because I think the whole how I help instead of just getting lengthy, but it's something like I help leaders. It's just like I help leaders show show other everyone that their work doesn't suck. Right. But that's true long. I'm trying to there's a simpler way of saying this, that I help people, hopefully there's proof that their work doesn't suck. That will be the like a short enough version of that. I think it's confusing enough that people want to know what the hell does that mean, right? And that would lead perfectly into your story. And what you're what you're showing there, there's probably a different way to do it. Maybe something to do with the presentations, but it depends how much you want to say it. So there's something in there like I think that works. I help leaders prove that their work doesn't suck. But there might be a different way of phrasing that. But I think something along those lines fits the rest of the story might be something to do with. I help people not sabotage their careers with their speaking, right,

Nausheen I. Chen 1:00:04

that actually makes a lot of sense. It's just not snappy. But that's that is what it is really,

Francisco Mahfuz 1:00:08

there might be something in there like I stopped, but it is no self sabotage.

Nausheen I. Chen 1:00:12

Yeah, you've spent years building, you know, building your experience, don't let one presentation tear it down or something, I don't know,

Francisco Mahfuz 1:00:20

I help people not ruin their careers, I help people not ruin their careers on the stage. Right? You could say, I help people not ruin their careers on stage, or I help people not ruin their careers in 10 minutes, right? Or 15 minutes, whatever you say, is the average corporate presentation, right? So you know, help people not ruin their careers in 20 minutes. What does that mean? Oh, most people's careers change on a few very big presentations, those presentations can be anything from, you know, 1020 30 minutes, and one of them that go catastrophically wrong, could be could make a massive difference in your career. So this is how you would explain it if you weren't using the model we just created. Right? But yeah, so So again, if you if you use something like the time, you would want to build the time in at the very end of the 32nd story. So you'd say, you know, most clients I've worked with have the opposite problem. Most leaders have the opposite problem than I that I did. The work is great. But their presentations suck. And sometimes in 110 minute presentation that can change completely how people see the quality of the work, and how good they are. Right? So I help them get substantially better on stage in camera and in person. So they can speak like the leaders that they are. Thank you. Yeah, you put it so to speak like the leader that you are, but that's kind of it's kind of inspiring, and not so much exciting. Not so much like what the hell is that? Right, speak quickly that into it is like, Okay, that sounds a bit highfalutin. I think it works at the end of a story, I don't think you do the work as a headline. So that would be my suggestion for the another headline. But just for the five second story, either. I help people prove that they work, I help leaders prove that their work doesn't suck. Or even I help leaders prove that they don't suck, or something along the lines of I help leaders not ruin their careers in 10 minutes. Okay, I think those of us that are a variation of those works with the stories, and it's very easy to add or tweak the about the end of the of you explaining what you do. And I think it conveys exactly what is it that you're trying to do. Now the challenge is for you to tweak the language. So it sounds like you did shouldn't sound like my words, feel comfortable with it, and be able to do the whole thing beginning to end in no more than a minute or just as much over a minute. Okay. So if if, if that challenge sounds like something you're up to, then what would be great is if you were able to give that a go over the next few days, we give that a go over the next few days. And once you like once you have it, then you just record that minute. And then we either add it to the podcast, or we you know, I use that to promote the podcast on a date on social media. So I think that'll be that'll be a cool way to do it.

Nausheen I. Chen 1:03:11

Yeah, yeah, I can do that. Definitely. I think there were, there were so many different things that you said, you know, specifically over the past half an hour that really resonated. And what I really want to do is like, you know, like, listen to it back, like take notes and craft the story, like you said, in my own words, and put my own my own voice in it. And really try to make it as concise as possible, which is, as I told you is not really something I struggle with from time to time when it comes to telling my story. So yeah, I think I can, I can definitely work on that.

Francisco Mahfuz 1:03:44

Cool. Well, once we get that out of the way, when the second thing you could try and do is get the broader story that we we put together. So that kind of timeline in if you want to come up with like a three, four or five minute version, which is sort of like like your full origin story. And it's not necessarily something you would tell from beginning to end, I think I've only told my my origin story info once or twice, but once you do that, you'll find that you can always get pieces of it. And they become posts, they become other, they become other stories that are more relevant to other people you're speaking to, you know, occasionally, you start working with people that are trying to become better speakers because they want to launch themselves in business, then parts of your story will resonate a lot more than some of the stuff that we were working on now. So I think that would be the second step is the longer version of your story. That makes

Nausheen I. Chen 1:04:43

a lot of sense. Especially like for example if you want to launch a YouTube channel or something and that could be like your, your key video was really kind of tells people your whole story if they want to listen.

Francisco Mahfuz 1:04:54

Yeah, I mean, I I'm trying to think when I've used the whole version of mine and I think it depends like if I have ever at like, relaxed podcast, I will sometimes tell the one minute version of my story. And then they go okay, but Okay, fine. So we found out about it being like post storytelling is is great thing, but like, did you start doing it straight away? And I go, Oh, no, no, I was stupid because I was like concerned about money, then I did this, then I did that. And this is when I finally so like in that conversation, the whole thing comes out over the course of 10 minutes, 15 minutes. But it's, I don't tell it from beginning to end pretty much at the time. But the beats themselves are practised enough that when I tell I'm not improvising, which is it's fine sometimes. But like some, some beats like that when I'd say to people that I've, I've only done this when I found out I was going to have a second daughter, because having a first daughter and being a grown up hasn't taught me how that process works, that I pretty much always gets a laugh in that's something I like, when I was practising originally, I was like, Okay, I probably this would this would work. And I tested, it worked, and it stuck. So it's something I always tell the exact same way, it's just easier than then inventing it every time. And in my case is good to test for minefields and stupid stuff that I often say, is like, okay, maybe this will be misinterpreted. Maybe this should be out. Okay, so you've got, you've got your homework, I hope that this was more or less what you're expecting.

Nausheen I. Chen 1:06:25

Oh, it was incredibly helpful. It was just, I was just Yeah, it was very, very, very insightful and helpful and really made me think of what I'm doing in ways that I hadn't thought of before. Because it really, really helps getting your perspective on it. Also, because you're in a similar field, and you do understand the kind of client really well as well. So it Yeah, I just wasn't thinking of all the different issues and problems that they could have had that I just hadn't experienced by myself. So always good to do that. Yeah. So thank you. You're welcome.

Francisco Mahfuz 1:06:59

And thank you for being for being the guinea pig of this of this experiment. And so if people want to want to find out more about you or connect with you, what is LinkedIn the best place? Where do you want to send them anywhere else,

Nausheen I. Chen 1:07:12

I have just launched my newsletter, and my website will be developed further. So right now it's in a very basic stage, but it's up. So it's n So that's just my first letter of my name, en and then sheen, like Martin and,

Francisco Mahfuz 1:07:27

my audience is unable to spell. So we will put that in the show notes. And anybody that wants to pop into the website or join the newsletter can do so. But I think I think I will be asking too much of them, trying to spell any names that are not obvious enough. So let's let's not tax their brains more than we've already texted over this, over this, this this this long episode we've just done. Once again, thank you very much for coming. This is absolutely fantastic. And here as promised his machines one minute story, after she had a few days to practice it.

Nausheen I. Chen 1:08:03

A few years ago, I was working as a filmmaker. One of the films that I created got into a film festival in Tenerife in Spain, I had to get up in front of a roomful of TV stations and investors and present my film. After my session, a bunch of investors came up to me and said, Your presentation was amazing, mind blowing, passionate, but your trailer sucked. The leaders that I work with have the opposite problem. They are experts in their field, but their presentations kind of suck. And when you don't know how to communicate your ideas effectively, you get passed up for that next promotion, senior management forgets about you and you never land that client deal. That's where I come in. I help leaders speak with high impact on stage on camera and with their teams so that their presentations never suck again.

Francisco Mahfuz 1:08:55

All right, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. Take care of yourselves. And until next time.

I hope you enjoy the show. And if you did, I'd love for you to subscribe and leave us a review or rating on the Apple podcasts app. It's very easy. You open the app and find this show. Then scroll down a little and when you see the stars tap. I'd really appreciate it and it does help other people find this. And if you'd like to get in touch or find out more about what I do, reach out to me on LinkedIn or visit my website story

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