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  • Writer's pictureFrancisco Mahfuz

E21. Why Brands Should Be StoryDoing with Daniel Heuser Prestes

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.

Francisco Mahfuz 0:00

Hi everyone, Francisco here. Just before we get started, I wanted to share something I'm really excited about. I recently launched the story powers bootcamp, a course that teaches you everything you need to know about how to find craft and tell stories that work. But it's not just an online course, because you get personalised feedback from me for all the practical activities in three hours of life coaching to work through any challenges, or focus on specific projects. So it's like if you bought a cookbook, but the chef came along with it. So go to story and click on Course, all the information you need will be there. So please check it out. And if you love the show, and would like to support us, you can go to buy me a forward slash story powers. I drink about five coffees a day, so any support would be much appreciated. All right on with the show.

Welcome to the story powers podcast, the show about the power of stories, the people who tell them and why you should be doing it too. I'm your host, Francisco mahfuz. My guest today is Danielle hyzer prestress. Then he is a creative strategist focused on brand transformation. He uses human experiences, data and cultural insights as a foundation to help companies be braver, more relevant and impactful. He has worked in three FIFA World Cup campaigns with Adidas and AB InBev. He ran out of space on his severe I think, but I can tell you, he's so good at making sound effects that if they ever make another police academy movie, he will be my first big as the beatbox. Scott, if you like the show, I really appreciate it if you could subscribe and leave an iTunes review. I'm not sure if it helps other people find it. But it definitely helps my self esteem because nothing says you're worthy. Like a five star rating. Ladies and gentlemen, Danielle hyzer breasts. But yeah, welcome to the show.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 1:58

Thank you. Thank you, Francisco. Thanks for having me. Wow, that's quite. That was quite an introduction thing. Yeah, it goes. It goes a long way to back in the day when we were like cracking jokes and trying to make it as comedians, I guess, right?

Francisco Mahfuz 2:11

Well, after all the weird stuff we did while we were at university together, is having a podcast to talk about storytelling in marketing, the weirdest thing.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 2:23

It probably is. I mean, I mean, we could be doing like we could be like worldwide famous now and doing, you know, sitcoms or or even have our own TV shows and online on YouTube or something. But I guess, yeah, having a podcast was not something we saw coming.

Francisco Mahfuz 2:39

Right. Yeah, I think the problem with our world domination projects is that we thought we were really funny. No one seemed to be willing to give us money for it. And that was perhaps a little bit of an obstacle as a career prospect.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 2:54

Yes, a. I was talking to a friend and he's loud, man. You're really funny. You should be, you know, maybe pursuing a career. In that. I say, well, the term I use is that my sense of humour is not unanimous. I tried. I live better. But there you go. Yeah, I

Francisco Mahfuz 3:11

didn't think of that as that I am. normal person funny. I don't think I am comedian funny, which is very different, you know, correcting a couple of jokes with your friends in the space of five minutes is one thing cracking, you know, 50 jokes in the space of an hour in front of 1000 people? Not necessarily the same thing?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 3:31

Yeah. As far as probably the equivalent of you know, considering yourself not to be that ugly when you're a teenager, right? You just like I'm good, normal, good looking not good looking good looking, as well. And I guess as a grown up, you're just trying to be like, you know, to have a sense of humour that somehow is, you know, slightly better than average. That's what we aim for, I guess.

Francisco Mahfuz 3:54

But it's also true that given our age, being good looking nowadays just means having hair and not being overly fat. I think we're both We're both just about a way.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 4:10

Now that you frame it this way, I think we're like way above average. Yeah, you know, you're gonna view the crime scene and you know, the lack of haircuts. I think we're, we're in a good place.

Francisco Mahfuz 4:24

Indeed. As you as you well remember, I quit marketing score advertising school, halfway through depriving our football team of a magnificent goalkeeper. But up until that point, there was no talk of storytelling or anything like storytelling in the classes we took together. So when was your first exposure to that?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 4:48

When you consider storytelling into this creative universe? Setting? It's almost like a matter of discussion because you have a few layers of storytelling, if you like. The first one is is internal, you know, when when an agency, for instance, receives a brief or a request from a client, internally, you need to discuss and convince other people when there is a, you know, there is a specific way of doing things, you know, you have a creative department that is responsible for coming up with the ideas. myself as a, as a strategist, you know, I'm kind of like the bridge between the client, the business and the consumer and the creative world. And, you know, you need to find a way of telling stories internally first, so then people jump with you, and they're like, Oh, this is a good idea, we should be doing exactly what Daniel said. So that's the first layer of storytelling. And and it takes a lifetime to, to do this properly. I would say, that's probably the hardest one, then you have, you know, between the agency and the client, how do you convince the client? How do you tell a story? To the brand owner, let's say that, you know, they should be doing X or Y, or, you know, changing their logo or doing something they never did? I mean, it's quite scary. And companies tend to go for, you know, benchmarks like, has someone? Is this has this been done before? And if the answer is yes, 90% of the companies will say, well, then I'll do it. Because there is not an not that much risk. And then there is the third layer of storytelling, which, you know, maybe that's kind of like, the more apparent from the outside, which is like, how does a company or you know, a brand speaks to a consumer or a person, but I would almost like break down into those three, the first time I came across, it was back in 2006, perhaps. And I think, you know, you spend a lot of time as a junior person on the first two layers, you know, like speaking to clients and speaking internally, and of course, it takes a while until your idea kind of like makes it through the end. And that is the idea that it you know, people in the real world will see it, or, you know, the story that people will see it. But yeah, I think, you know, you start your start early, but you start with the, the boring parts of the storytelling, you know, which is internal, I guess.

Francisco Mahfuz 7:16

So in 2006. When you when you first came across it? Did people call it storytelling? Or was this just how things were done? But nobody gave it a name? Or was it? Oh, no, no, we need to look at the storytelling aspects of this campaign or something along those lines.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 7:31

Yeah, they do. I mean, it is a term used. Sometimes, for instance, when when it is like presenting an idea to a client, you just say we're going to pitch it, it's about pitching. But just to give you an indication of you know, how important in my first, in my first job, like, when I became slightly more senior, we we paid the junior guys acting classes, because the way you tell a story is so important. And you know, it is a it is a staple in the business. Like, you need to know that if you don't, if you cannot tell a story, then you know, you're going to have very, a lot of difficulty. So yeah, people do call it storytelling, but not all the time, I guess,

Francisco Mahfuz 8:14

in how much does the what people understand this classic storytelling, figure into the Way agencies either think, or talk about stories and what I mean here by classic is things like, you know, the hero's journey, or you having story archetypes, so you know, rags to riches and the quest and things of that nature. Does that how much does that factor into, into into an agency?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 8:42

A lot of clients love that youngin archetype approach. And as I strategies do, you need to go deeper into that, like, especially brands, or you know, companies that have a portfolio of brands. So working for, with abi, for example, a beanbag the biggest brewery in the world, you know, they they have hundreds of brands. So they they use the archetype approach to define like, wow, this brand is going to be the hero. This brand is going to be the magician, the sage, this one is going to be the magician. So yeah, it is well used, I'd say more for FMCG clients that need to organise their portfolio

Francisco Mahfuz 9:23

in remind me remind me what FMCG stands for fast market

Daniel Heuser Prestes 9:26

consumer goods. So basically the stuff you find on the supermarket like chocolate bars or beer or stuff you you've been eating during the quarantine, I guess so. Yeah, it is used internally. You know, we don't we don't use that language that much. We don't say like, oh, you know, let's make it a magician. It's more like if the client believes in that. And that's a battle. Not worth fighting. Let's just embrace it and use it.

Francisco Mahfuz 9:50

There. It is interesting, because so if you don't use those terms, do you have your own terms? Yes. Okay, in And what types so if you don't talk in terms of the hero or the guide, or you know, whatever we the sage, what do you call it?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 10:07

I mean, we well, it depends on I guess the culture and the type of business. I mean, I worked for a computer games company and they had, you know, different way of framing any creative discussion, the word narrative comes up a lot to like, what what is the narrative? What is the climax? What is the role? You know, currently, you know, a lot of the talk in, in this business is about purpose, perhaps sometimes too much, but, you know, like, what, what does this brand believe in, you know, how you tell that story is important. So, you know, all those words, somehow they they link back to, you know, to storytelling, in my opinion, now, we're living a transition into more, and apologies for the for the lingo here, but you know, it's it's more about story doing you see, like the, you know, the latest six months the all the shifts that are that are happening with you know, Coronavirus, and, and the social unrest in the US, or, you know, around the globe, people don't want to hear Bratton talking about stuff they like, what are you doing? What are you doing about it? That's, that's the most important question. So the same for, you know, a creative business, like they need to adapt quick, like, it's not about, like, there is nothing we can say, now, that will make this brand look better. So we willing to do something to help society to help this group of people? Yes or no? And then, you know, the mindset needs to change, like, how do you tell a story through actions? So that's why like, you know, sometimes like, yeah, there's, there's a lot of storytelling, especially when you talk about the creative department, the guys coming up with, you know, ideas for movie for films, and, you know, sometimes like a long form content movie, or, or a print ad, they talk about, you know, storytelling a lot. But when a brother sends his, you know, we use different words. And I think now is more more about actions than than words, honestly,

Francisco Mahfuz 12:10

what would you consider to be an example of story doing? So how does a company go about using story doing instead of storytelling?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 12:19

So that's a great question. It's probably already like, oh, there's no as an example, but I think illustrates quite well like when you look at Red Bull, they don't do advertising or, you know, when they do is like, so minimal. But they decided to, you know, prove the point that they are about, you know, adventure and excitement. And, you know, it gives you wings, by literally throwing a guy out of the stratosphere. And of course, there is a storytelling around it. Because you need to tell like, once you've, you've done something, you need to tell the thing that you did, so that comes with it, but it doesn't lead the charge, if it make fun, you know, they created the Red Bull were racing, you invent the sports category, that didn't exist before. You sponsor, you know, Formula One, and football and you know, so many other things. Koecher like music. So that's how they, you know, that's, that's how they talk to people. That's how they convey their stories. So that's one one example. You know, when you look at the FinTech transformation happening around the globe, here in the UK, you have Munzo as you know, the big shiny, you know, startup doing this, like a few months ago, they they they've never done advertising or you know, they didn't tell stories in a more traditional way. All they did was, you know, to create an amazing experience. And through all that people will feel like, well, there's this brand gets me and at the end of the day, I mean, this is kind of like the objective to make people give a shit to make people care about you. And to make that story somehow ownable to you, like unique to you. And not just like one size fits all, like kind of story

Francisco Mahfuz 13:52

with the red boy example. And I'm thinking of Nike. Now, I think Nike did something similar in Brazil, would it be fair to say that the difference here in when it comes to story doing or storytelling is that, say, with traditional storytelling advertising, you're filming or you're putting in print fiction, you created a story, it's now the magazine, it's now on TV. But it's fiction, it's nothing actually happened outside a studio or outside the mind of a creative, whereas the story doing is, is instead of filming a commercial, there is an event that actually happens. I think the one I'm thinking of with Nike was there. There was some I think it was a real some polo race, or something along those lines that they got involved with. And they did that instead of doing a commercial about it.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 14:39

Yeah. I mean, they're in the traditional storytelling business. Let's call it that. In in advertising or the creative industry, there is the experiential, as they call it, you know, they create concerts or you know, a marathon race or an ultra marathon race, like the Nike case. I mentioned. So there is already that so there is already some some sort of doing in the traditional marketing mix if you like, I think when I what I mean by story doing is basically leading with that, you know, is realising that the tank is empty, and there's nothing you can say, that will convince people, you know, to change their minds about you or you know, to buy something or to do something you want them to do. So, I think it's more like on the on the origin of the intention, because the, you know, traditional marketing has concerts, like a lot of brands sponsor, you know, musicians or, or festivals, and in a way, you know, this is like, you know, action and then you talk about it, like whatever you did in the concert. But going back to your point, I think, yeah, 90 90% of the time, the the traditional filmed, storytelling is is more about fiction than it is about reality. There are cases that they decide to embrace a real story, or they they say like, Yeah, let's take like real people and show this. But yeah, you're right. Usually one is one is more of our like, let's do something. And then let's brag about it. The other one is, let's just talk about this amazing world. And let's get people excited.

Francisco Mahfuz 16:14

I think you got distracted that for a second, because you said you're right. I don't think I've ever heard those words coming out of your mouth to me. He got that 20 years, but we got there.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 16:28

That comes with age, you know, I'm getting there.

Francisco Mahfuz 16:31

Yes, you realise the political aspect of light sometimes. There was something you said before I wanted to pick you up on when you were talking about the elements of storytelling and how companies understand them, you said that people focus too much on purpose to your liking. Explain,

Daniel Heuser Prestes 16:51

I think I think it's important for, you know, the private and the business, to realise that they have a broader role in society than simply, you know, returning profits to shareholders. And, you know, thankfully, that that penny penny drop moment is happening across the globe. And, you know, everyone is is sort of mobilising around that idea. And, you know, governments, businesses and, and citizens are more like engaged, like, you know, we need to bring change fast. Otherwise, you know, we're we're in, in trouble, when I say, you know, sometimes too much is, is that there are companies, for instance, during the COVID, 19 crisis, that they were like, I get you, I'm with you, you know, this is my, this is my purpose. And it's like, this is not the time to talk. So sometimes, you know, like, some companies use that new purpose Avenue, which is amazingly exciting. But they use that as a way to revive the, the old storytelling approach. So it's an excuse to do a 62nd. TV commercial, because they believe in something, there is a purpose behind that. And because, you know, you know, you've seen how these brands act in real life, like you are consumers like this is, this is not real. So I think that that's my only caveat on on the purpose and Avenue, I think is incredibly exciting, especially with the opportunities that you know, technology brain, you can do so many things with a company that has purpose that is open to use technology, and is willing to embrace creativity.

Francisco Mahfuz 18:29

When you talk about the company discussing a purpose, that is not actually true. Now, I understand we could get more you could get into a lot of trouble by discussing this to a certain extent. But what I want you to understand this, when you're talking to a company, and you're discussing things like purpose or discussing their story, I understand that if the company is actually doing certain things, and if it's very easy to point to examples and the company's history, in actions that supports the narrative that is being discussed. That's obvious easier. But But surely, I would expect there are plenty of cases where the company wants a narrative, or wants to change a narrative. And the agency might be looking at that and go, Well, you know, Philip Morris, you can't have a health purpose in your advertising, because it just makes no sense. So, you know, how do how do agencies try to square that circle?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 19:27

I mean, you you said like, the job is to, you know, to help clients make an impact in society and within people's lives. It's not to you know, if they want to just to tell this story, they want it to tell they will probably go to a I don't know, to a production company and say like, Hey, listen, this is the story I want to tell and someone would, so we just produce that video and that's it. And, you know, that's not what an agency or you know, a good agency, or a good creative partner does I think the main point is to flag like, you know, now we are in, in June, and we have pride just around the corner. And you know, cause marketing as, as it's called, is a thing, like, you know, a lot of brands just like jump in the, in the bandwagon, and they pay lip service to, you know, whatever the causes for that, you know, for that month. I guess the point is, people don't buy that anymore. People see through, and to be the agency that, like, allow that to happen is, you know, that that's not the job. So I think, you know, as you said, like, yeah, you're not going to push for health, you know, the idea that advertising leads to, it's about, like, knees leading people to do stuff is is, you know, is in the past, I guess, I hope. But, you know, in my experience, you know, we try to, to counsel to guide to find elements and evidence that will will open like opportunities that no one's saw before. But it has to be true, like people will, I mean, it's the social media age, like people will find out if you're like putting an ad about, you know, how committed to you know, pride you are, but you have a terrible policy when it comes to LGBTQ plus, in your own company. So you find people in the past, or you know, you don't do this, you don't do that, he will come and there is no 32nd glossy TV commercial. Two, he will not prevent that happening from happening. So that I guess that's, that's what I'm trying to say like it is. It is great in PowerPoint land, as we call it. And anything I mean, the beauty of PowerPoint is the most amazing technology of all, he supports anything. But when it comes to going out there, it's not as simple as that.

Francisco Mahfuz 21:55

When it comes to pride and supporting it. I think I can probably say as much as I want, because I'm sure some friends of mine have some footage of me in the last pride parade I went to in Madrid, when they I was left alone for about 20 minutes because someone was looking for a bathroom. And when they came back, there was a lot of integration going on. So I'm sure my credentials are well established, if someone were to challenge that that footage would, would soon appear my friends being as they are.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 22:27

Yeah. Um, I think the, you know, this is just like the reactive, let's call it the reactive calendar, you know, pride is happening, the COVID-19 crisis happen. Now the Black Lives Matter. How do you say like stand is happening right now across the globe? And brands? Are they have to react somehow, they they want to have a voice or you know, they want to have a share of that conversation. I'm not even considering the proactive stuff. Like, you know, if you do believe if you wrote somewhere that you do believe that, you know, you're about X or Y, like what are you actually going to do like proactively without the media calendar, or the the events around you pushing you to act?

Francisco Mahfuz 23:11

One thing I struggle sometimes to understand when it comes to storytelling, as used by larger corporations and big brands? is, does whatever story or narrative that the client in the agency agreed? Does it permeate everything that that client is putting out there? Or is there a point when the elements are just so small, like slogans, for example, that the slogan is just a slogan, because Logan is not, you know, the spear point of the narrative.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 23:41

I mean, sometimes, you know, companies are like people, they have previews baggage. And sometimes you need to play with the setting that you have, like, you might be planning to reposition a brand and you know, they have a new purpose, and it's exciting, they can back it up, everything is great. But there is you know, like an asterisk, like, oh, we need to use this because, you know, it comes with you know, whatever, or, you know, we need to use this site or this type of medium. Because we already signed the deal with this media provider or you know, we cannot go into that market or we can we cannot do this kind of thing because there's a legal implication Yeah. Answering I guess more directly your question. Sometimes it does happen that you know, you need to just like just put it here because you know, we cannot that's not a battle worth fighting. But usually you know, it's about like, like following through that narrative and yeah, so he's Logan is very powerful. I mean, you know, to be single minded, is one of the key strengths of this industry. You know, how you condense information and make it exciting and make it memorable and actionable. That's that's one of the The big strengths of of this industry yeah I slogan is never just a slogan, I would say, well yeah sometimes is the easiest way to explain to our moms for instance what we do but a

Francisco Mahfuz 25:11

road warriors? Well, yes, I suffer from from a problem, which is no job that I ever do seems to be particularly easy to explain is the is the Chandler effect. I ride slogan to the mucheasier want to get across the river years and years working sort of in the finance world. And it was very difficult to explain to people, I tell people what to do with their money. But what does that mean? Oh, come on.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 25:40

Guy writing the slogans usually, so it's nice, also hard. They're like, hey, yeah, I'm the middleman between a brand and the creative department and the guy who actually writes their slogan, and I need to translate real world business information into, you know, insightful nuggets that people will, will use to explode into a fantastic, sorry,

Francisco Mahfuz 26:05

you have no strange, but you have a unusual background, when it comes to I'm not going into those stories, don't worry about it. No, I was gonna say that you you have studied things that wouldn't necessarily be the most obvious things for people to study after you finish med school. So what is it that you did as a masters or a PhD on sociology, and yeah,

Daniel Heuser Prestes 26:31

I'm a sucker for this. I love studying and acquiring information, as as my job requires, you know, to be the person translating different worlds into, you know, simple messages. Most of the time, it requires you to deal with a lot of different information that you probably don't want to just take the summer you found online to explain stuff. So you need to go slightly deeper most of the time. And I've always been fascinated about CDs, and how CDs are, you know, alive. And, you know, why do people gravitate towards CDs and all that. So I decided, after one of the big world cup projects to study urban sociology, here in London. And, yeah, it's amazing. Like, it's one of the best things I've ever have ever did, despite like being a full time student, like growing up for a year, and having to go back in, in time in terms of lifestyle and say, you know, how to survive a week with, I don't know, 20 pounds or something, and, and also, like, look for the cheapest beer you can find and the dodgy pubs in the area. But yeah, I also studied economic development, as you know, this is like one of the biggest discussions in today's world, like, Can the economy grow, and not destroy the planet? And, you know, it's probably like a very big question. But, um, but you know, I want to, I particularly, you know, gravitate towards those big questions, and I try to make up my mind by going into weird courses or, you know, studying weird stuff.

Francisco Mahfuz 28:08

So this was the time that you were trying to save money. And in I think the dodgy place used to go for beer was browns, wasn't it? Brands? There's lots of resilience there. I hear nobody, the reason I was asking about education is because what I wanted to find out, if there is an answer to that is how, if if in any way, this this completely different study affect the way you deal with, with your normal work in advertising? I mean, have you found that your approach the, the narratives you build or the way you approach companies, has that changed because of this completely separate thing?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 28:50

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I consider my job to be about people, humans, thankfully, now, I think the industry is trading more about you know, is approaching from a human angle, rather than a consumer angle. Only any comes and, you know, apologies for like going like too too far on this one. But like, the idea that, you know, we are the rational economic man, you know, the almost economic was, you know, that makes like, rational decisions that, you know, we're selfish and we want to splurge and like all those things that come that came with the definition, over the years, I mean, we are slowly realising that's not true, like people are inconsistent, people are emotional people are erratic, like, and I think, you know, like, studying urban sociology, like how me go on the ground, as you know, as we say, like and just like, see more of that stuff and, and find out different ways to understand that to research that and bring that information in a more palatable form.

Francisco Mahfuz 29:58

Let me just bring us back Back to storytelling before, before we done because you worked, you worked for a long time in Brazil, and you work for a B InBev, as you mentioned, and bought a B InBev. Do his beer. And in Brazil, and I don't know if that's necessarily the case in Europe as I haven't, I don't watch much TV here. But in Brazil, most beer commercials are the most cliched type of advertising that ever was, at least the ones I remember, they always involve people having fun on the beach, and very healthy women parading around now, is there something deeper that I just didn't know enough about humanity or advertising or storytelling to pick up from those commercials? Is there an agency really trying very hard to build a narrative there? Or were they just as plain as I remember them to be?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 30:49

I mean, I didn't pick that face when I was in Brazil. Yes, it is, like very straightforward. I would say, you know, like to put ladies in a bikini and just put like, a beer bottle there and say, it works. But I would, I would say that, you know, this is probably one of the projects I'm most proud of, you know, it was a it was a long push. And of course, I didn't do it by myself, but like, how do you, you know, change the mind, if a company like that they used to do, you know, talk to people through TV commercials, by doing those approaches to, you know, for instance, have a different way to talk to people. And I remember I arrived back in Brazil, just before, like at the end of 2012. And, you know, Brazil was right, Brazil is hosting the 2014 World Cup. And people were like mad about it, like, oh, man, you know, there's money going to football stadiums and not to how for education. And, and there was a, there was a thing in Brazil, like, oh, you know, if it is a saying, going that, you know, food is bad. Now, emoji, you know, not copper, can you imagine during the World Cup, if, you know if if it's not working now, imagine during the World Cup, that was kind of like the, the cultural mood if you like, and I think, you know, we were like super bold and brave to, you know, the client and the agency to, to say, you know, what, we're gonna change people's perception, and you know, it is going to be amazing, because that's what we do, as Brazilians. And you know, to go for that, for a mainstream brand, you know, that sells beer, and every market share point is a lot of money. So there is no risking, if there is no gain to be had. So I think, you know, I would argue that at least a beanbag has been like, very, very brave, when they picked up that there is a shift in society and in culture, and we cannot keep doing what we were doing. And I think that's, that's, you know, that's what brands and ultimately, agencies do, like, you know, you need to understand culture. So you can reflect the right story. So people can identify, can find utility can be entertained, or, you know, can be feel empowered to do something they they wouldn't do otherwise. But I think yeah, you know, the, the cultural discussion is a very interesting one. You just try to embrace culture, or you try to create culture. And I think, you know, when, when we as, I guess civilians, we can call it, or I do call it like that, when I'm not like wearing my professional hat. You know, when I remember, an ad from whatever, like 20 years ago, it's probably someone who managed to create culture. And you know, I see myself singing a jingle or, you know, I remember a TV commercial or, you know, an experience that I've been to, even though it's been ages, and I don't remember what I had yesterday for breakfast.

Francisco Mahfuz 33:55

Yes, I think that I tend to think of that as, as narrative, a story. And it's, it's remarkable how much certain things become the story that we remember, you know, I had, I had a conversation with our mutual friend, Anthony Weiner, who studied history. And we were talking about how much you know, history at the end of the day is the story that became the official version of it, or the story that we remember. And there's so many things that became part and do become part of our day to day life. But everything has different angles you could look at. So the fact that something got became part of culture, as you said, is to some extent, the merit of of a storyteller of a group of storytellers who decided this is where we are as a company, this is what we are as a brand so we are as a country, if people remember that you told that story. Well, if you don't remember that, then you didn't

Daniel Heuser Prestes 34:56

100% agree, I think I think that's that's brilliant. I you know, I'm I'm passionate about history, and you know, like everything that that helps, you know, I guess for my story, economics, sociology, geography, like everything, you know, all those components. And I guess, going back to your earlier question, like, you know, why are you going to those weird places because that is how stories are formed. You know, that's how we create impact, it's about making people give a shit, if people don't give a shit, at the end of the day, like, I didn't do my job. You know, I can create, like, amazing PowerPoints and, and, you know, everyone will be excited and high fiving and doing everything, but, uh, at the end of the day, if you don't create an impact in real people on the streets, then didn't happen. So that's why you need to, yeah, as you said, like, understand, like, Why leave no stones unturned? That's, that's one thing that I, that I always embrace, like, there is no way, you know, we are just rational and selfish, for instance, even though we are pushed to believe that, you know, this is how the human brain works. And you know, if you do communicate in this in this way, in those nuggets, people will do those things. Yeah, maybe to a certain extent, but but we're still people will fuck up will be inconsistent, we probably, you know, most of us, the functional ones will be coherent. Every time for instance, a client asks me to, you know, I want to be more human, and it's like, well, then you need to stop being consistent. You need to be coherent, because that's what humans do. You know, you don't say the same thing over and over and over, they, they after day after day, like you kind of like have your personality, you believe in a few things, and you act in a certain way. And within those boundaries, you are coherent, maybe, you know, if you have a breakup, you you be like out of that space, or usually that's how humans work. So are you willing to do that as a brand, and the brave ones they do. And that's the exciting thing, you look at Nike, I would frame them as a coherent brand. And not just a consistent brand, maybe they bring the consistency through the filming, to the treatment they do to the give to films and to, to the to the strapline just do it. But beyond that, they can tell stories in a very erratic way if you like. But they all lead to the same place without saying the same thing. It reminds

Francisco Mahfuz 37:26

me a little that this is the quarterly between the consistent and coherent a little bit about this thing that's become a pain in the ass buzzword now, which is authenticity. But you know, if you are authentic, you will be coherence, you know, you'll be variations of the same person or company. But they will come back to Oh, yeah, but that is a Nike thing to do, or that is a dunya or a Francisco thing to do. But it's not consistent. And I think that is also a good thing. Because if if you and I had remained consistent, you know, maybe we would still be back at taking 48 hour bus journeys, and drinking 50 Proof Kasasa for two days. And I think it would have stopped a lot of the other things we've done in our lives. So consistency wouldn't have served us coherence. Yeah, as I'm pretty sure we've changed that nonsense to less lethally lethal approaches to fun, but very, no, I get that. And I do like that. And I think it's I hadn't heard it put it that way before. But is that is that your definition? Was that a? Is that an industry thing?

Daniel Heuser Prestes 38:34

Ah, I, I haven't read anywhere. So I don't want someone else created. But um, when I think it goes back to the, to the human point, you know, I'm really obsessed about is a sociologist, about people, like what makes people do the things they're doing, especially in a, in an urban environment? And you know, you have culture surrounding that. So yeah, I think I think in a way, like, the person who does the same thing, you know, every day is a strange person. Right? So it's slowly I think, you know, brands are realising that and the great thing about, you know, doing more story doing if you like, is that, you know, actions sometimes are more powerful. And you don't have you know, you're not going to do the same thing all the time. So you can approach it from, from different angles, I guess. And that makes it fresh and exciting and easier to relate to. But yeah, I think I think you know, the, the coherence point is something I have strong for few years, like you know, if we are to, to be more human, we need to embrace that threat because that is that is how humans behave and how they how we tell our stories, basically right?

Francisco Mahfuz 39:48

I wanted to just ask if anyone wants to find you or more of the work you do. Are you anywhere? I mean locked at home right now but I don't I don't even know if you are online a great deal.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 40:00

I think I am in the hearts of all my friends and family.

Francisco Mahfuz 40:03

It's it's a not a common mistake to make. But yes.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 40:07

But people can find me on LinkedIn, even though I'm on share parental leave, and I'm kind of like less active on that on that part of life. But yeah, that's the that's the best way to find me,

Francisco Mahfuz 40:17

mate. Thank you very much for your time today. I hope I hope lockdown is over soon because what I'm seeing here in the video, I mean, this is not sustainable. That that hair needs need Scotty. But other than that, I also hope we can see each other again soon other than through a video interaction.

Daniel Heuser Prestes 40:35

Right. Me too. Thanks for having me. This has been really fun. Thanks for having me, Francisco.

Francisco Mahfuz 40:41

Alright, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Take care of yourselves. And until next time

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