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  • Writer's pictureFrancisco Mahfuz

E5. Why Your Mind Is An Unreliable Narrator with Jay Abbasi

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.

Francisco Mahfuz 0:00

Hi everyone, Francisco here. Just before we get started, I wanted to share something I'm really excited about. I recently launched the story powers bootcamp, a course that teaches you everything you need to know about how to find craft and tell stories that work. But it's not just an online course, because you get personalised feedback from me for all the practical activities in three hours of life coaching to work through any challenges, or focus on specific projects. So it's like if you bought a cookbook, but the chef came along with it. So go to story and click on Course, all the information you need will be there. So please check it out. And if you love the show, and would like to support us, you can go to buy me a forward slash story powers. I drink about five coffees a day, so any support would be much appreciated. All right on with the show.

Welcome to the story powers podcast, the show about the power of stories, the people who tell them and why you should be doing it too. I'm your host, Francisco mahfuz. My guest today is Jay Abassi. After years of developing training programmes for billion dollar companies like Tesla and Solar City, Jay lost a loved one and saw his life fall into places. He found his way out through mindfulness. Now he's a storyteller, speaker and consultant, bringing mindfulness training to major companies as a way to lower costs, reduce stress, and increase productivity. Jays also house nuts, who dislikes avocados, but I have a feeling he's doing that just to be controversial. If you liked the show, please leave us an iTunes review and subscribe. It really helps other people find us. If you don't want to do it for me, that's fine. Just do it for the karma points. You can never have too many of those. Ladies and gentlemen, J Abasi. Jay, welcome to the show that you

Jay Abbasi 1:57

so much Francisco, it's great to be here. And I don't have a I don't hate I know I say hate avocado. I just dislike the texture. You know, I just I feel like avocado is never really the same every time you order it. It's either solid, or it's a paste. And it just bothers me that I never know what texture to expect when I have avocado. You know what I mean?

Francisco Mahfuz 2:18

So the mindfulness guy minds that things are not as he expects.

Jay Abbasi 2:25

Ray call I probably work here to do. IV J. Right. But that isn't quite objective, right? There's an objective. Like, I don't know what texture is to be expected. Sure. But to your point, there seems to be some attachment to a result. So thank you for that.

Francisco Mahfuz 2:44

Listen, let me let me give you my my avocado story. It is a very short one. This was maybe three months ago. I just got one. And then I was trying to find the inner I didn't have much food in the house. This was just the beginning of the lockdown. And then, you know, toasted some bread, put some avocado on? Somehow maybe a fried egg would be brilliant here, had a fried egg and told my wife listen, I think I'm onto something. And then I spoke to some people and you know, the truth of the situation dawned on me. And I realised that was maybe 10 years behind the curve.

Jay Abbasi 3:15

It's a very, very well known order to have avocado toast my friend. But listen, I have I have been open minded. recently. I did have guacamole that I bought wasn't terrible. Progress.

Francisco Mahfuz 3:30

Fair enough. Fair enough. Jay, do Toby can stop talking about nonsense. Like you. I many a few years ago, I found mindfulness and meditation to be remarkable too. And I truly believe it's the main reason I'm only half the jerk I used to be. And I think a lot of people have similar experiences. But what almost no one does is discovered that and then think you know what? I'm going to quit my job, become a corporate speaker and trainer on mindfulness. So how did that? How did you go from one thing to to what it's happening now in your life?

Jay Abbasi 4:09

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think it wasn't. So it wasn't so instant to where I found mindfulness. And I decided to train on mindfulness. It was a it was an over years of practising and seeing the results. That led to me recognising that this is the most important thing that I can offer people. But when I left Tesla last year, I work at Tesla for about four years, I had a decision to make as to what I was going to do next and I just kind of let go Francisco of any type of trying to control the situation. I just said, You know what, I'm going to see what happens. And some things came into my life. Naturally, I said started consulting for companies, but that was more sales. It was sales, consulting and onboarding, and it was earlier this year. When I realised like this is great, but my intuition kept telling me, there's something else, there's something else for you to do. And I gave it a lot of thought, I went on a lot of walks, did a lot of journaling. And it led me to realise that if I could train on anything, because I know how to train, I know how to develop online training courses, I know how to take something complex and make it simple. I've been doing that for years, what I train on, and there is, I think, nothing more value to offer people, especially now considering everything that's going on in the world, that nothing better than giving them the tools to build resilience, to persevere, and to stay motivated, and be productive when things are really hard.

Francisco Mahfuz 5:37

So explain to me how how the first, how the first experiences with that worked out, because that's something I'm very curious about. So yes, I get what you're saying, I fully buy into the whole mindfulness idea, not just for, you know, personal development and peace of mind. But the first time you said to someone, listen, I figured out what I'm going to do. How I mean, how did that go? How did the first time you tried pitching that to a potential employer? I mean, how, how was that experience?

Jay Abbasi 6:10

So I think what I learned from the experience was one, to always maintain my passion for it and and share my why about it. Because I think that's what was the trigger what really resonated with the person, I think that the way we communicate things matters, you know what I mean? So rather than just saying, I want to get into mindfulness, I think I can help people, I tell a little bit of my own personal story with the person I'm speaking with. And, and I think that there's an emotion there that we can connect to. And I found that in sharing my personal story, giving my why and also, what differentiates me from others, helped a great deal and ensuring that the person who I'm speaking with can see the value that I'm offering, as well as like, they feel it, it's more of a feeling, you know, Francisco then then just logical, practical understanding, there's a feeling that comes with it, that you need to communicate to somebody. And so I think through trial and error a little bit in conversations, I realised, be myself just speak openly and honestly and passionately. And that communicates it better than me trying to figure out how to, like, logically explain it to somebody. Does that make sense? He does,

Francisco Mahfuz 7:29

he does, I think my, my adult as much, it's just a case that, for example, let me just, I'm just illustrate this with a with a story. So I, what I what you've gone through sounds a lot like what I've gone through and a lot, but every single person that has ever gotten into the speaking business, or even to some degree in the in the training business goes through, which is I believe I can communicate, I could possibly communicate or speak or train on all of these different things. But how I need to pick one, or at least to pick a niche or a lane. Because if you're a generalist, then typically you're not the guy they go for when they want that specific thing. Right. So what happens with speakers a lot, when it ever happened to me was, I thought, Okay, well, I can definitely talk about communication skills, I can definitely talk about public speaking. But at some point, you start talking to people in the business and you start trying to figure out what are the best paths? And the advice I was given? Was something that wouldn't have worked for you, I don't think because they essentially everybody told me Listen, look at what's being booked, what speakers are being booked, you know, what subjects do they talk about, if the subjects you are interested in are among that list, then you find, if the subjects you're interested in are nowhere to be found, then sure, you can still succeed, but you are trying to convince people they need a type of speaker or trainer that they don't currently hire. So if that is your passion, by all means, go for it. But if your passion is equally divided between these five different things you could train on or speak on, then it was perhaps better in the beginning to pick something that is proven and there's a demand for it and then branch out once you have a name in the market. Obviously, if you got that advice, you wouldn't be doing what you're doing now. Right?

Jay Abbasi 9:25

I think this is to me sounds kind of like excels one on one a little bit like you know, in terms of how we effectively influence others and help them to see the problem that they currently have and how your product or your speaking or your training whatever is a solution to that problem. So I think that there's research that needs to be done and the research I've done on stress in the workplace, and the dollar amounts that have or that are associated to mental health issues and how it affects accompany people who take Time Off, people who need to utilise their mental health benefits. People who drop their productivity due to stress and other psychological issues. The numbers are there, the research is there. So I understand the point of yes, the companies have to have kinda like this menu, and this needs to be on it. What sometimes it requires is to do some discovery with these people that you speak with. And through that discovery, through the questions that we ask through the pain points that we discover that they're facing, we can have a dotted line to our product or service. And I think there isn't a company right now that isn't struggling with psychological uncertainty that isn't struggling with some lack of motivation at their organisation due to this pandemic, and everything that's happening right now in the world, there isn't a company in the world that doesn't have stress or mental health, as part of the reason why their people are suffering. I mean, the stats are out there, over 80% of people in the United States say that they are stressed from their work, over 80% also say that they are mentally checked out at work. Those are big numbers. And if it gets communicated the right way, for the organisations and the people who are trying to serve their employees, they're, they're hopefully going to see my product as well as others that are offering a similar solution. They'll see it as a solution to this problem. Yeah, no,

Francisco Mahfuz 11:29

that makes sense. And, you know, I am, I am a convert to the to the idea. It's, it's I think it's just a case of understanding or in my head stretch to understand how does that get put across to, to companies? And yeah, I mean, employee well being, I think, now more than ever, is clear that this is very relevant. And we have no idea how long we're going to be in this very strange situation for. So arguably, companies are not at a point where they want to be dealing with employee issues, or losing employees, or just having massive drops of productivity because of the very understandable stress that people are going through. So you would imagine that now more than ever, this is an easier sale to to an HR department, or whoever's is hiring you that. Okay, we need someone to come in here and speak about that.

Jay Abbasi 12:19

Right? Yeah, I was gonna say, and you know, what the, the approach to hear Francisco is, of course, speaking as part of it, but I think and I think speaking has a has its place, and there's so much influence that one can have and a day seminar or two hour keynote, there's definitely value there. And but I think, you know, in terms of infusing something like mindfulness into an organisation, it requires practice, it requires, like an infusion, like it requires that the culture of the organisation adopts this kind of understanding and the way in which the employees communicate amongst one another. And that this kind of this Northstar, that everybody is concerned about each other's mental well being. And I think that my ultimate goal is to kind of inject this into organisations through online training that all employees at the organisation have access to, which includes video content, accessing live webinars, jumping on Zoom calls, and that kind of service, I think, is more of a extended long term solution. I mean, it's it doesn't take a great deal of timeout of the day. But it's something that's like a drip campaign in a way that daily, there are reminders and ways in which to practice being mindful to give people that relief that we all know they so desperately need.

Francisco Mahfuz 13:51

Let me let me go back to what you said before you said that the speaking as part of it, but obviously not all of it, and I wouldn't have expected it any other way. But what I am curious about is how does the How does anything that is not more practical exercises, figure into into the work you're doing? Because I've seen people talk about mindfulness have had experience with some of the different apps, this is usually more meditation focused and not just necessarily mindfulness focused. And I'm quite curious how if you have to do a keynote as part of the work you're going to do with a company, what does that look like?

Jay Abbasi 14:29

Great question. So the way I plan on offering my course is to have sections that are dedicated to the understanding of mindfulness in the most practical terms possible, the most logical and simple ways to understand what mindfulness is, what how it benefits you what the neuroscience shows as to the impact it has on the brain, the brain, the benefits that we know through research, as well as the practical tips of how to practice in a multitude of ways which include meditation, you know, breathing, meditation, body scan, meditation, all those practices with giving the learner the option to choose, which fits their style, because I don't think there's one way to meditate, Francisco, I really don't. And also, I see that the course will offer ways in which you can apply it to your daily work life. So it's not just the sitting down on the cushion and practising, it's also okay, in this situation, how can you practice being mindful versus being reactionary? Now, to answer your question about how do you infuse a two hour keynote? How I imagine this going and how I plan on how I'm bringing this to organisations, I should say, is to give a menu of options, according to what's in the online course, and understand what the organisation is really attempting to do? What's the desired outcome that they're looking for? And with that, I have a menu where they can choose from between is the focus going to be on the practices of mindfulness? And how to actually practice it through meditation? Is it on the understanding? Is it on the neuroscience? Is it how we apply it to our daily lives? And then from there, say, Okay, how much time do you need? Or how much time are you looking for, and then be able to narrow our focus to the specific area of that of the online course, where the in person or you know, virtual keynotes speech is taking a deeper dive into that subject.

Francisco Mahfuz 16:27

It's interesting, you say that there are different types of medication for different people, I normally practice Vipassana, mindfulness meditation. But I have found that in moments of stress, I tend to resort to my own type of mantra meditation, I just repeat to myself over and over inside my head, don't be a jerk, don't be, don't be a jerk. That was to come in handy when I'm dealing with my wife. And with my daughter, sometimes, when she's driving me up the wall it gets it gets as extreme as don't punch the wall. Don't punch the wall. Don't punch the wall.

Jay Abbasi 17:02

No, I you know, that's the beauty of it, Francisco. And I really appreciate what you just said, because I get a little It upsets me to hear when there are teachers out there. And there are courses that are suggesting there's this one way to meditate. And if you don't do it the right way, you're like, that's not that's actually completely counterintuitive to what mindfulness is saying, because mindfulness is about acceptance, and allowing, and to not try to force things upon yourself. Right. So, and no judgement, of course, that comes along with mindfulness. And so what you just said, that's beautiful, man, like, if that's your style, like go with it, if it brings you to the present moment, and it helps you to not be a jerk. Fantastic. And I'd say, you know, I have a similar thing mine is, I don't, I don't use terms like jerk, or the term

Francisco Mahfuz 17:47

is actually a little harsher than okay. Right, I get it. I can say, but I try not swear, that's absolute. They have to in this case, joke would do. Okay.

Jay Abbasi 17:58

All right. So like, for me, for example, I do I say things like, here, here, like, I mean, I'm here. Now, I'll repeat the word now. I'll repeat the word observe that that one really brings me to the present moment. And that's what we do. When we're meditating. We're observing, we're observing the present moment without judgement. And then one that really helps me to settle my mind a lot is release. I say the word release quite a bit when I meditate. Because ultimately, the real challenges we all face with dissatisfaction and unhappiness are due to the fact that we're trying to control things that we can't control. So when I say the word release, it really does bring me to that calm place of not trying to cling to things that I that aren't serving me. That make sense.

Francisco Mahfuz 18:49

Yeah, it does. And I wanted to find out to ask you about the the storytelling aspect of it, because obviously, you lead with your personal story. And that's, that's very important. And I imagine it does a lot of the heavy lifting in clearing all the questions and all your objections about why the hell is this important? Why would we be doing this? But I wanted to find out. If you if you use stories, or something like stories throughout the rest of your training, as any way to illustrate what to a lot of people are very difficult concepts have

Jay Abbasi 19:23

so loosely, I can't tell you how many of these little stories that come into my mind. And it's almost like I have to sometimes choose between the stories because I have so many different ideas of how to explain concepts. And I think that the reason for it is and we were saying even before the recording, right? Like, I think that we are connected by stories, we retain stories. It's just the way in which it's been passed down through our generations. And the way we're wired is when we start to hear a story, our brain goes download, keep, it's just the way it works. And so I want to be sure to communicate a lot of these concepts which can sometimes appear to be very complex through storytelling. And an example, and I'm still working on on a few of these concepts is to explain the programming that we all have. And the programming that and some of us have more than others. But the programmes that run are due to the ways in which our ancestors operated and those genetics been passed down generation after generation. So an example would be, there are two, there are two people that are walking in the woods. And one, every time he sees a rock, he thinks it's a tiger. The other one never thinks the rock is a tiger. And when they walk through the woods, the first time, it ends up being a rock, it's not a tiger. But they keep walking through the woods every day, they walk through the woods, after 1000s, or hundreds, I should say, of times of walking through the woods, there is one instance where that rock, that what looks like a rock is an actual Tiger, and the one that was preceded that way ran and the other one who didn't got mauled by the tiger and didn't make it. So what ends up happening, what ended up happening is, over time, those genetics are what passed down and what those genetics are telling telling us right, is this negative bias thinking, to always think the rock is a tiger, and that is oftentimes why in our experiences, we see things as negative, we tend to always look for what's wrong with a situation versus what's right. And that's a programme that always runs in us. And in some times it serves us right, if you actually do see a tiger, you should run, that's a good thing. You don't want to ever think it's a rock. But when it's not a real tiger, and we're reacting as if it is that doesn't serve our programme. So that's like an example Francisco of how I bring a story into the understanding of what is happening to leave us so dissatisfied, and why we feel stressed and anxious. Often,

Francisco Mahfuz 21:58

since you went to evolution, I'm, I need to talk about something that I know it's near and dear to your heart, which is hide and seek. Hmm, I guess I have this, I don't think this is my theory. I think I got this from a very funny Twitter account called exploding unicorns, or at least the guy who wrote that writes that, and he talked about why children, everyone Except your daughter, apparently, is terrible at hide and seek. And his theory is an evolutionary theory. He says, imagine we're back in the savanna. And you know, there's five kids playing. And one of them is actually very good at hide and seek. But you know, these people are, are are nomads. They're hunters and gatherers, something happens, maybe there's a wild animal, maybe there's a storm, maybe one of the elders just decides it's time to pick up and leave. And they go in, although kids that are crap at hiding, come because everybody knows that it just, you know, half behind the tree. And the one kid who was very good gets last leg gets left behind. And that's why it's we bred out of our race to be any good at hide and seek. So volley,

Jay Abbasi 23:06

it could be I don't know, I mean, there's a lot of evolutionary theories that have that kind of humorous anecdote, but it couldn't be true. I, I think my daughter, so my daughter cheats in hiding, hiding Gauci. So the problem is that she basically tells me where to hide, and I'm like, Well, you can't tell me where that ruins the game. And then she gets upset. So then I hide, then she pretends like, she doesn't know where I am. And then she finds me and I'm like, Oh, wow, yeah, you went again. So that's the reason why she's so good. Hide and go seek I don't think she just skipped the evolutionary process.

Francisco Mahfuz 23:39

True, I think she's, uh, she's bending the rules of the game. But But yeah, but let me come back to because you, you mentioned the story about a tiger. And I do find that I mean, stories are always useful as as a way to get different, difficult concepts into people's minds. But I find that there's some, at least to me, that made a massive difference when I just started looking into mindfulness and Buddhism and all this stuff. And one that, that I've thought about often, and I've even used it in a speech once was this idea of the sandcastle, right. So you know, you are playing with your, with your kid on the beach, and it's amazing fun, and you're building the sandcastle, and it's getting, you know, complex and you're adding wings to it and towers, and it's amazing. And then a wave comes and destroys the castle. I don't think any adult ever gets upset about that. Because it's a sandcastle, you were expecting that at any moment it was going to fall over or someone who's going to step on into the wave was going to come. But some children are distraught. I mean, they did to them that was as permanent as anything in life. And I remember when I when I, I think I honestly thought about that story where I heard or read it. But that to me, just made such clear sense of this idea of impermanence, that I could never get that imagery out of my head whenever I think about it. impermanence and this idea that things change all the time and why we shouldn't be so, you know, sad or frustrated or depressed about it. And I think about the sandcastle.

Jay Abbasi 25:08

That's a fantastic story and analogy to teach on impermanence. I love that. And it also refers to it. Okay, okay. Okay, I will. So I appreciate it. And I'd say there's also it kind of tells the story of how what's important to us, at one time isn't important to us at another time. So it all that falls under impermanence. But it kind of helps you to zoom out and see things a little bit. And that's another thing that a visual that I sometimes have in my head, which is to tell myself to zoom out. And over the long span of span of my life. This is simply a blip on the radar. And I'm this is no, this is not going to be a challenge to me a year from now, just like how something that happened to me five years from now that at the time, I thought was the end of the world. Or maybe 20 years ago, when my sandcastle was destroyed by the water. Right? It was the end of the world then. But I don't even think about it today.

Francisco Mahfuz 26:10

To me, a lot of what mindfulness does is what I tend to sync about. Have as I need to I need to backtrack. I'm sure your daughter has this. Do they still have tantrums at age eight? Yeah,

Jay Abbasi 26:22

not as many. She had one recently, because that she just losing her mind about not being able to see her friends. Yeah,

Francisco Mahfuz 26:29

sure. I mean, you're fairly justifiable tantrum. Yeah. So. So my daughter, I mean, she's three and a half, right? So tantrums are a daily occurrence. And you know, she never makes breakfast. And I usually make banana pancakes for her. And she never helps me make breakfast. And then one morning, she decided she wanted to, but she only told me after I had made the pancakes. So I told her, but they're already they're ready, baby, you can help me tomorrow. And then she just, you know, melted down into tears and screaming and whatever. And I thought, wow, I mean, she's being a complete baby, right? I mean, she has no control of her feelings of her of her reactions. And then I started thinking about every time I get angry, in how I do things that later I think, are completely stupid. And then I started finding that what meditation allow in mindfulness allows me to do is have what I think of as an out of baby experience. I step outside myself in sync, while you're being an idiot. Oh, look at look at what you're saying, this is just ridiculous. You're getting your faces read, you're all tense. This is you just being a big baby. That again, that image, your iPhone, that things of that nature, just communicate to people a lot better, what this whole point of this thing we're talking about is that just saying, We know you're more calm, and you today's in your last transit, and people just for some reason seem to find it very difficult to put their fingers on why anyone would bother sitting down quietly for you know, 10 minutes, or whatever it is. And you know what possible benefit you'd get out of it. But I mean, that those are the things I think about when I think about mindfulness.

Jay Abbasi 28:05

Yeah, I love that. And the way I like to explain it in the simplest way is Viktor Frankl has a very famous quote from a man's search for meaning. And he says, between stimulus and response, there's a space. And in that space, I forget the rest of the quote specifically, but that was that's the start of it. But in that space, that's where we find our freedom to respond as we choose. And what mindfulness basically does is it opens up that space, because otherwise a stimulus, anything right? Or, you know, our child screaming about banana pancakes, and we're ready to potentially react to that in some ways, with aggression or whatever it is. But instead, we give ourselves that space with mindfulness practice to look at it objectively. And what your story just reminded me of, is, have you ever seen the movie? The Incredibles? Yes. Okay. Do you know Jack Jack, right. Yay. Okay, so I've decided to give the voice in my head, the character of Jack Jack. And here's why. Jack Jack is a baby that has superpowers that he can't control. He lights himself on fire. He shoots laser beams out of his eyes. He's a complete mess. But he's a baby, right? He's adorable. He doesn't know any better. So I think of the thought in my head. That is the anger the negative self talk, the desire to want to control everything. I imagine Jack Jack lighting himself on fire. And it allows me to do two things. One, it kind of helps me to separate from it and look at it the way you were just describing objectively and second, it also gives me this sense of compassion for myself. And recognising that this is just a natural occurrence just like with your daughter right and banana pancakes. That's a natural occurrence. She does she's not wrong for feeling the way she is or feeling the way she does. But hopefully over time and through, you know, over time with her age, she'll be able to have that space so that she's not so reactionary. And also be able to have compassion for herself, that she doesn't judge yourself for feeling the way she does.

Francisco Mahfuz 30:14

Yeah, and I already told my wife that it's probably not a good idea that every time I tell her that I had the last of the desert, she throws herself on the floor crying. Because you know, it's not a good example, maybe this is where our daughter is getting it from. Yeah, and it's interesting as well, because you're talking about the Jack Jack example, when this is where what you just described about dissociating from your reactions, I tend to think about as a way, or as a place where storytelling and mindfulness meet, which is this story that everybody tells themselves that when you're in complete control of your thoughts and feelings, and to that you are what you think, or you are what you feel. So people that are feeling, feeling depressed or feeling sad, or you know, they just don't react in a way that perhaps they would rationally like to react, they tend to think that this is who they are. Right? And, you know, from from a storytelling point of view that that that makes sense. But from a mindfulness point of view, in my experience, at least, if you just shut up and pay a patient for a few minutes, the nonsense that goes on in, at least in my mind, is baffling. Am I like that? This is just citing, is this what it is all the time?

Jay Abbasi 31:35

I'm telling you, man, it's like, if you really listen, it's like having a, it's like having a roommate, who doesn't stop talking and kept, keep saying the same thing over and over again, in your head all the time. And if you really listen to it, and what the person saying, or what the voice is saying is completely maddening. If we had a microphone, and everyone can hear what we are thinking all the time, everyone would be labelled a psycho, right. And so I love the way you described it, which is when we're able to get that space, right, the space between stimulus and response, and we can look at things objectively, we can recognise that those thoughts and those feelings are not really what define us, we can see feelings as a signal, and at times those signals are good signals, right? It's like if you get mad at someone for treating you poorly, that's a good signal, you are indignant to what the person is saying. And then you should respond accordingly to protect yourself, right? You shouldn't be passive. That's not what mindfulness is teaching you. what mindfulness is teaching you is rather than punch the person in the face, right? You can have a conversation to stand up for yourself, and then not let that thought and that feeling, continue on and on for the rest of your day driving you crazy, because you're no longer thinking or you're no longer under this assumption that you are that thought and you are that feeling

Francisco Mahfuz 32:59

or at least punched him in the arm. So you have plausible deniability.

Jay Abbasi 33:04

I mean, this sounds like you have,

Francisco Mahfuz 33:06

you're more advanced than I am at this thing. I'm just saying, Don't punch him in the face. But I still want to punch them but not in the face, though.

Jay Abbasi 33:14

Right. And plus, I think it doesn't hurt your hand as much. Right? True.

Francisco Mahfuz 33:19

Right, so let me let me ask you something that I assume you would have been asked, you know, being that you are on LinkedIn, and you know, social media being the occasional gutter, is, is that a lot of people find reasons to be a pain, about pretty much anything. Right? So So the question I imagine you've been asked, or the criticism you might have gotten is that you know, you are you are making a living out of mindfulness, and you're going into, you know, potentially big corporations. And the reason they are hiring, you might not be reason that you are going there, but the reason they are hiring you is because at the end of the day, it will be one more thing that will help them boost their profits. Has that come your way already? Or not yet? It's

Jay Abbasi 34:10

more been a thought that has come into my own mind, not so much what other people have said, at least to this point. And you know, Jack, Jack is in there, right? And he's talking. And so the recognition and this is, I think, applicable to anybody in anything, is to remember what the end result is, what is the true desired outcome? And what is my why behind it all. And the true desired outcome is to relieve people of suffering by the true desired outcome is to improve human health and happiness. Now, if that also helps to boost the productivity of an organisation and helps their bottom line Great, that's amazing. That's an awesome byproduct of that and I believe they are associated I really do I think when people Then the research is out there when people are happier, and they like the work that they do, and they're not stressed, they produce better, right? But I'm, I'm saying what I'm what I'm thinking to myself is I know my why I know why I'm in it. And I know that what I'm giving is a value to individuals. And I think that stigma behind, you know, trying to make a profit or trying to earn a revenue off of something like that there's some sort of negativity there. I don't I don't really agree with that. I think if there's something that we give a value, whatever it is, it's worth something, right. And we should be perfectly okay being compensated for something that we're giving a value, right, something receiving something on the other end. And I'm always in terms of the psychological aspect of it. I'm always reminding myself to keep my why in check. And remember what this is really for.

Francisco Mahfuz 35:55

I think that would be a perfect note to end on. But since I know you through social media, I have to ask, what's with all the emojis?

Jay Abbasi 36:06

Listen, I've never been an emoji guy. But here's the reality, right? When you go through all this text on a platform, the emojis create a nice little story that you can give in the actual post. And as someone who loves stories such as yourself, Francisco, I hope you can appreciate the storytelling aspect that comes with emojis when you can create an expression in the text. So that's really why I am putting in emojis.

Francisco Mahfuz 36:36

I am dinosaur in that sense. I about it's only about three or four weeks ago that I actually got an emoji keyboard on my phone. And I fully appreciate that for text messaging, they have their place. I'm still resisting bravely putting any, any, any emojis in my in my text? But you know, I think that there's a time and place for everything. You know, you do you? I thought it was worth asking.

Jay Abbasi 37:04

Oh, that's a good question. I've had people who told me they love the emojis and people who don't like the emojis. I am okay, either way, but I think it seems as though the most people really enjoy them. So I'm gonna keep going and see where

Francisco Mahfuz 37:19

it does. Jay, where can people find you?

Jay Abbasi 37:23

So LinkedIn in terms of social media is the best place just J ba ch j y ABB ASI, and you'll find me on LinkedIn. I'm posting regularly every day and I engage on the platform. I love it. I think it's an incredible community of positivity and engagement. And in terms of outside of social media, my website is J So the same spelling J y, a BB asi. That means

Francisco Mahfuz 37:48

I'll stick that on the show notes. Don't worry about it. No one No one can spell. No, no, no. We think people are going so J A Why sorry. Rewind. 15 seconds. Go again. Show Notes, page show notes.

Jay Abbasi 38:02

Awesome. And no emojis in the website domain. Yeah, I

Francisco Mahfuz 38:06

don't think they allow them yet. But if can you just imagine how that's gonna look like when they allow those?

Jay Abbasi 38:13

It's calling one of these days and you know, I'm gonna sign up for it

Francisco Mahfuz 38:15

first. Yeah, I mean, it will be it will take so long to give a website out just what's your website? JB But there's no A's in there. The A is the little face looking thoughtful. Not sad, thoughtful.

Jay Abbasi 38:30

J a bossy, thoughtful face.

Francisco Mahfuz 38:33

Yeah. Jay, thank you very much for your time it this is fantastic.

Jay Abbasi 38:39

Yeah, this was a lot of fun, Francisco. I appreciate it, my friend.

Francisco Mahfuz 38:42

Alright everyone. Thanks for tuning in. Take care of yourselves. And until next time,

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