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  • Francisco Mahfuz

E7. Boosting Your Charisma and Squashing Beetles with Florian Mueck



Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.


Francisco Mahfuz 0:00

Hi everyone, Francisco here. Just before we get started, I wanted to share something I'm really excited about. I recently launched the story powers bootcamp, a course that teaches you everything you need to know about how to find craft and tell stories that work. But it's not just an online course, because you get personalised feedback from me for all the practical activities in three hours of life coaching to work through any challenges, or focus on specific projects. So it's like if you bought a cookbook, but the chef came along with it. So go to story powers.com and click on Course, all the information you need will be there. So please check it out. And if you love the show, and would like to support us, you can go to buy me a coffee.com forward slash story powers. I drink about five coffees a day, so any support would be much appreciated. All right on with the show.


Welcome to the story powers podcast, the show about the power of stories, the people who tell them and why you should be doing it too. I'm your host Francisco mahfuz. My guest today is that public speaking guru in charisma booster Florian MOOC foreign workers as a trader, keynote speaker and speech coach, and he teaches companies the power of persuasive communication and memorable presentations. Some of his international clients include Banco Santander Metro group, Microsoft, my Hennessy, and King. Florian is a collaborator of ESA business go in Barcelona, author of five books, and the CO creator of rhetoric, the world's first public speaking board game. If that wasn't enough, Florian loves karaoke, and has shared this passion with many unsuspecting workshop participants over the years. This was a no holds barred conversation on all things speaking. So buckle up. You're in for a treat. Love it or hate it. Please leave us an iTunes review. And feel free to be brutally honest. I've been married for too long to mind some criticism. Ladies and gentlemen. Florian. Look Florian, welcome to the show. How are you my friend?


Florian Mueck 2:09

Over there. So great to be here with you.


Francisco Mahfuz 2:11

Florian, you've had 104 clients in 32 industries, over 15 countries in three languages. It's fair to say you've been around a little. So what I wanted to ask you is what are the most common mistakes that you found? In all these years? You've been you've been teaching people how to communicate about it.


Florian Mueck 2:35

You made mistakes on their side? Oh, yes.


Francisco Mahfuz 2:38

We can get to the mistakes on your side right after? Well, yeah, yeah.


Florian Mueck 2:44

First of all, in my world that you know very well, there's only everything you do well plus and everything you can do even better plus plus, so to call it mistakes is for me a no go. I cannot call it mistakes. What is something that can improve? Oh, there's so many. But if you ask me one thing in this specific field, to improve, it would be definitely what my mom always wanted to call me. Because my mom, she's now 88 Today I had a FaceTime call with her. And now she finally I got her an iPad know Finally she knows to use the iPad. And now that she can use it, I told her again. She always wanted to call me or she always wanted to say my son, the doctor, my son, the PhD. Now she's 88. And I think I'm not gonna make it. But as you mentioned as a business school, IESE Business School, 10 years of collaborating guest lecturer, if one day I will write a PhD Francesco, I have my topic. Why can't people give specific examples? So one of the many things that you can improve content deliveries. It's amazing that people always talk generically. I had a normal childhood normal what a lady once said in my training, I had a normal childhood. I squashed Beatles give example.


Francisco Mahfuz 4:14

I think it's fair to say that if you think that squashing beetles is a normal childhood, there's probably a lot more about your life that other people wouldn't consider normal.


Florian Mueck 4:24

And guess where she's working in Berlin in a fantasy book publisher? No wonder.


Francisco Mahfuz 4:31

Okay, so so so that's clearly that's clearly an area for improvement. To what is your best guess of why people do that.


Florian Mueck 4:39

That's what have to do the PhD. I have no idea. But it's,


Francisco Mahfuz 4:43

you can swear


Florian Mueck 4:45

I have no fucking idea. It's amazing. It's amazing. Because, you know, I'm a German and you know, I'm a freak, I count them in Excel, and I count them in almost 11 years it is 10,938 speeches that I've experienced in 50 countries, as you said, and it's amazing. And when you see those PowerPoint Jihad presentations, not even let's talk about business presentations, business presentations, we have to create value for our clients what value we didn't we didn't reach the critical mass, which critical mass. You have to create a win win win win win. Be specific,


Francisco Mahfuz 5:25

you know, as you know, I've been I've been a slightly more active on LinkedIn these days. And there is one thing that value is one of those words that people keep throwing around on on LinkedIn, how can I add value to what you're doing? I have I have a good friend there that does this amazing videos. And one of the things he does is he recreates LinkedIn talk in real life. So people had a bar approaching women the same way other people tried to sell on LinkedIn. Can you just imagine people talking to each other and saying, floating let's go to this bar. They have wine and beer, it's a win win.


Florian Mueck 6:03

Nobody has reached a critical mass of my monetary resources.


Francisco Mahfuz 6:09

Yes, yes, I think I think


Florian Mueck 6:12

I think one thing is bullshit. Bingo, we know that. That's one. That's all generic, abstract and abstract and generic. Never sticks. Only specific examples stick like the squash Beatles, whichever mentioned many times to Brian, new Francisco really well. So for the rest of your time, you will think about that stupid Beatles crashing


Francisco Mahfuz 6:32

my gas. So I don't have any PhD. And I'm not going to have my mum, my mum got a degree. That's all she got. Right? It's a degree in English. It's useless. But I've got a degree, that's all I'm giving her. But if I were to guess, I think it's when people just don't know how to tell stories. That's the first thing. But also they don't realise the importance of those details. You know, there's the doubt that personal detail is what makes the story true. In people don't get that they think that the more generic you are, the more you're talking to everyone similar to maybe eye contact, you know, talk to the audience. So you look at everyone. Now,


Florian Mueck 7:08

let's stick to what you just said. Let's stick to that. I think after all my experience, I think, no, I think people don't think at all about this. It's just general. Here's here's a very, you mentioned one of my clients, Moet Hennessy and this is a wonderful thing. The guy stands up in my speech, structuring exercise. And I always ask, Okay, give me one benefit of working for your company. In his he was a sales head of group, you know, group high value campaign. And then he said, Okay, passion. So we the employees, and what is it, we have passion? And then I asked him, Okay, give me an example of your passion for that company. And then he struggled, and he's travelled and give me some passionate, give me some example. How do you make it tangible and your passion? And of course, he didn't know. And then at one point, I got crazy. And he got crazy. He's standing there in front exposed in front of everyone. And then he said, Well, maybe the birth of my son is that Oh, that's interesting. What happened to your son? Yeah, you know that he was born apparently. And what? Yeah, and I wanted to celebrate, and what? Yeah, I opened a bottle of Kreuk. I put my little finger in the class, and I put it in his mouth.


Francisco Mahfuz 8:22

That is, that is gold. I mean, that is gold. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I guess that's people. You're right. I think people probably just don't think about these things. And we are those we think about these things. But but, you know, as I mentioned, with the eye contact is the same thing, though, isn't it? People look at the audience, because they think that that's the way to look at the audience. Well, now the audience is not a person, you need to look at a few people. So you're looking at everyone. And with the details, you might be the same that one small thing you do, makes the rest come to life because it feels real. What if it's just the sort of corporate speech is just the most boring thing in the world? Right?


Florian Mueck 9:05

Now, I realise there's there's podcasts or retriggers all my teaching answers. Teacher, I would teach you it takes out I don't want to put in but if you say eye contact, I always say my trainings there for there are four main objectives for any speaker communicator, to inform, to entertain, to inform, to entertain, to persuade, move to actually inspire change your attitude. So inform, entertain, persuade, inspire. And what I always say is, on top of these four pillars, there's a big huge horizontal block. And this is the end game of public speaking and communication in general. And this is called connection to connect with human beings. And how can you connect when you don't look at them? There is no way you look at one person at a time. Don't make it five seconds. A weathered psychopath.


Francisco Mahfuz 10:02

Yes. I think I have described this to people before, as you need to look at them enough that they feel connection, but you shouldn't look at them enough that they feel sexually harassed.


Florian Mueck 10:16

Everything is possible and the podcasts and of course it's sex appeal when you look, one second is okay, one and a half is okay. Three seconds. It's sexual connection.


Francisco Mahfuz 10:30

There's not usually what we're going for in public speaking. But you know, everything has its place, I guess, that there are many. There are many speaking and communication trainers out there. But your style is, let's just say unique. And I'd hate to ruin the surprise for any prospective clients out there. But can you share a little of what you do that is different than the norm.


Florian Mueck 10:58

One of my most faithful friends and clients is Home Shopping Europe 24 agency 24. It's a home shopping television programme in Munich, based in Munich in Germany. And I remember my that's the only of the 104 clients I've had that's the only company that have vited me to do a pitch. So we picture the scene. There's the the good cop, the head of HR, the bad cop, Alex, the head of training and development and the neutral studio head who didn't say anything. And the whole thing was I have to present myself what am I doing? And after two minutes bad cop Alex says the typical question for flooring. Why you? I'm like, Damn again, the same stupid question why I have to start at level zero again. And you know, ethos, no Francisco ethos. Credibility. I note an output. And we always have to start at level zero like Kung Fu Panda when the guy says voice Dustin Hoffman. Now this is level zero, exactly. This is where you have to start every time. But it's frustrating. Because after all those years and after all those clients and after all the celebrations and the beers and the wines without clients, the guy comes and says, Why are you? And then what this was the moment when I wrote and NT N NT ni or what's it reverse psychology article, which I called seven reasons why you should never work with me. And this is it. They're definitely things you don't want to work with me. And I only mentioned to him because he asked me and I don't want to mention all seven but two of them. My handwriting is okay, what is the euphemism? My handwriting. God cannot read it. That's not a euphemism. He's not able to God cannot read my handwriting. And you know, when your trainer you're supposed to write with a nice read of these, these clouds and with blue. And it's kind and cool. And mine is absolutely modern art. That's one. So when you want good handwriting don't work with me. And then the seventh reason I gave is, you know, I work in Spain. I live in Spain for 17 years. So if you have a problem with some good wine during the lunch break in trading, I'm still not your trainer. I'm crazy. And I'm passionate about it. But I have my style. And I just do it and whatever other people do, I don't care. I do my thing.


Francisco Mahfuz 13:34

I'm going to ask a question that I I expect you've heard before. But Florian, surely some of that is not appropriate for the business environment.


Florian Mueck 13:46

You want to hear a bear answer or a sugar coated answer.


Francisco Mahfuz 13:52

Well, no one has ever say said chosen the latter in that. In that question. I used to ask the same thing to clients of mine to say Do you Do you want me to be brutally honest, or should I sugarcoat the truth for you?


Florian Mueck 14:04

I work with PMG KPMG. The place to be only by the way, only few people know that it's Kleinfeld Pete marvic. Good. That is knowledge you really don't need to know. I was a board members assistant for one and a half years from 2001 to 2003. So I had to know this in Germany and KPMG my friends, come on. We are all human beings. And I don't want to be to bear but you know what human beings do? They get drunk? They take drugs. I never took drugs. People always think I take drugs. The only drug I took was one hash tea in my Erasmus exchange programme in Barcelona for 24 hours I was gone. There's not only time I took drugs really seriously never took but people do that. And people have lives and people are bad and people are good and people have divorce and people have depressions and people are human. So if you want to connect with human beings and game and mention it and game of computation is connection. Be human. There is no differentiation for me anymore in trainings between business and non business, it's all the same.


Francisco Mahfuz 15:13

I agree. I mean, I think that this is the, you know, falls back onto the whole, you know, being generic, is it's impossible to connect with this avatar of a person that goes up there and tells you stuff and even if they are polished, and even if they are a good speaker you keep looking for even it's not I mean, that's not really you. I mean, there's, there's this example that I think every single public speaking trainer, lens on. It was in my book I found out later it was on the third book, I think it might have been on your latest book, which is the uncanny valley. Okay, so the uncanny valley, is this phenomenon you get when you see something that looks human, but not quite. If you watch some animated movies, for example, like the Polar Express where people they're made, they try to make them look real. But there's just something or they just feel uncomfortable. It's just not right, you're looking at them. And it's just like, but this doesn't, this is not how people look. This is not how people speak. And, and I get that feeling. Often when people are speaking in public, they're there, but it's not a real human being. I mean, no human being speaks that way. On the


Florian Mueck 16:23

same page, not on the polar bear page, but on the same page of what is you know, business and normal and authentic, authentic. In my two of my best friends from study from college times in Bamberg, very beautiful town. It is Tiko Tiko, massages equation, and Mike Springer, German, and they are best friends. They live in beautiful lake Taegan, Z Lake Takens, outside of Munich in the mountains, and they had the two best sales people I know on this planet. Okay, I know personally, there are many good salespeople. But these guys I know. And I've know I know, their track record. I know Symantec and HP and Mike build his own company with his brother and amazing stuff. Both have one thing in common. They talk to their clients, like to normal people. This is what it is. I mean, we're human beings. And okay, when your public speaker, as you know, you're a public speaker from this go, know your audience, you have a message, anything you do on it continent deliver his side must support the message. I will not talk about any weird drums and stuff when I was 15 when it doesn't support the mess. But when I felt free at that lake when it was 15, and I listened to Guns and Roses, Paradise City, and it was drunk and give a kiss the bone NFL freedom. And this is the freedom we need today in this company. I will tell that story.


Francisco Mahfuz 17:51

I think that part of the issue is that a lot of people there's sometimes focusing on the details or the context and not in the unique feeling that is being generated by those details in that context. And I had a conversation with with someone who we both know Gustavo. He was trying to find an angle to do a speech about whales. And and I talked to him and I found out that he very clearly he loves whales. Whales are one of his passions. And I asked him, How long have you loved whales and he says, I've always loved whales since I was a kid. I loved whales. And then I said to him, okay, so how about this? Do you remember that thing? When you were a kid that you were crazy about? It was a bit weird. Nobody knew how it started. But that was the thing you were insane about and you wanted toys of that thing. And you asked your mum for your next birthday to be decorated with that thing. Now, for you that might have been cars, you might have been Barbies you might have been Superman are transformers. For me, it was Wales. And I said to him, everybody has had that experience. Some people still have that experience. But you're looking for the feeling behind the details. And the details don't matter.


Florian Mueck 19:10

You know, Francisco that I cannot. I cannot accept your generalisation just now when you said everyone has had this experience, it can say who hasn't had this experience to be?


Francisco Mahfuz 19:21

Fair enough. Fair enough. That is that is a good point.


Florian Mueck 19:25

My was when I was getting my appendix. appendix out. I was 10 years old. One week in the hospital, the appendix and then do you remember Masters of the Universe?


Francisco Mahfuz 19:37

Oh, yeah, Hitman movie.


Florian Mueck 19:40

I was so in my HeMan and masters of the university. Yeah, we all had that.


Francisco Mahfuz 19:46

We watch back some of these things. And they are terrible. If someone told me that they watched Thundercats the other day and he was terrible. I mean, like not fun at all. When I said no, I'm not I'm not touching that I loved Thundercats I'm not really ruining my memories of Thundercats by actually watching it again. So, alright, let me switch gears a tiny bit, and you call your training or trainings, the charisma booster. And we've had, we've had a conversation before where you talked about how public speaking is just a tool. It's not the final goal of most of these things is not that you just become better speaker a better communicator that there's more to that. So my question is, how much do you feel that becoming a better speaker actually transfers into other areas of your life?


Florian Mueck 20:36

The question is the impact the positive impact of public speaking in your life? How long have you been a Toastmaster?


Francisco Mahfuz 20:44

I've been a Toastmaster for coming up to nine years I think


Florian Mueck 20:49

nine years now you're sitting in front of me on this screen doing a podcast you published a book you becoming a professional speaker you train people you coach people, hasn't that changed your life? The thing is all the people I've known I can only talk about the people in our club in Toastmasters and I've been a the David change my life was the fifth of October 2005 was a sunny day it was a humid day. Barcelona's still hard lots of traffic Granvia and I turn around and first Toastmaster meeting everybody clapping all the time. The banners Mrs. President, such an honour and what a freak show. And it's cool. I was always in the last row I threw the lemons and the oranges at the geeks in the first row and there was in the geek show number one and I signed up the first night. So this day definitely changed my life. And in those 15 years almost now, I've seen an F experience our friends, and I've seen others how they evolved. The friends, more friends, better jobs, starting a new career, starting their own company, starting podcasts starting starting starting. I mean communication is the centre of everything. In my second you called charisma boost. I have no charisma, booster one, two day training, first training, everyone has to do that. And some people take a second one, the charisma booster tune and there after lunch. I have the football club charisma 11 players for more charisma because I played football for more than 20 years. And they're the central player that jarvee The Michel Platini back then the Pele was a bit of a striker though. The Mateos in Germany as Zico, your Brazilian Zico Socrates, Socrates Brazilian team, amazing stuff. That's the game maker that is that what everything that is communication in my football club charisma and that speech, the central player is communication. And when you can communicate well, in all aspects, storytelling structure, your Umer delivery voice, body language, eye contact movements. I mean, how can you not be more successful in life? It's impossible.


Francisco Mahfuz 23:13

I guess the funny thing and I keep coming back to this, the more the more I get into this world, the more this just jumps out, at me is that most people think that people like you and I who actually enjoy public speaking, are weirdos, not saying we are not weirdos for completely different reasons, but only a weirdo. But what I think what is becoming clear to me is, it might actually be the opposite. Why isn't everyone doing this? Why isn't the weird the thing to not do public speaking? I mean, it's, I fully agree with you. And it's, it's clearly into the centre of almost every single, just not even talking about the personal side. But just on the career side of things. When What job would not benefit from you becoming a better communicator, you can count on your fingers, I'm going to just the very technical things.


Florian Mueck 24:08

There's one I don't want to interrupt you, which is a pair ellipsis because I'm interrupting you. Now, this stage fright is between the logic and the future. I mean, logically, it makes sense. You will have better friends who will have better jobs who will have a better career. Why don't you do it? Stage fright. I was sitting I remember in bond in the former German capital in Western Germany. Next to Cologne. I am sitting in bathroom. Three square metres, it's a dark room. The light is off. I'm sitting on the bathtub but it's closed. And there I am. And I have a panic attack. I have a panic attack because because 10 mins later, I'm sitting in a room with 25 students. And I have to say with a pen in my hand, and Florian I study business administration, Bamberg, Bavaria, focus on marketing and I have to find my first employee Here, it was an assessment centre with many students. I panicked. I mean, if I look back now 21 years back, I think I'm stupid. But this is that was my reality. And I understand people to have panic because it is panic.


Francisco Mahfuz 25:14

I don't disagree at all with you. What I also think, though is that it's perhaps because everybody has that fear that it's become normal not to consider public speaking and essential skill. Because a lot of the people that I speak to they don't it's not even our would love to do that. But it terrifies me. Or I think he's just that the the fear if it's the driver has taken over so completely, that it's not even a consideration for most people. And then the fact that anyone would have to, to convince an individual or a company that they need to invest in, in communication training, to me just seems bonkers. I mean, why would you not want to communicate better yourself or for your people to communicate better? And sure, stage fright is, is a big part of it. But it's become almost a niche thing. And that makes no sense. I mean, you know, in the individual level, he kind of does, but on a societal level. To me, it just doesn't make sense.


Florian Mueck 26:19

Because you're getting into this now. Never called a public speaking coach call it the communication skills trainer. Because communication is less resistance, public speaking, see, oh, panic, and communication is everything. That's why I call it a tool. It's the mean to get to work. The outcome is charisma wise charisma because this is authenticity, role model. This is self confidence, everything you learn through public speaking. And this is why the output the benefit is charisma. That's why I call it boosting charisma. But of course, public speaking, once you get them into that they get addicted. It's very addictive as


Francisco Mahfuz 26:58

a lot of what we do, or what we love doing. seems to have changed recently, now that we're all stuck at home. And the the possibility of getting on a stage in front of hundreds of people is for the time being on ice. In you have been one of the people that have jumped headlong into the new world of doing this things online. So I just wanted to know, what are you finding so far? Whether you like it, why you don't like it so much. How is it different? How is it the same?


Florian Mueck 27:28

In 1818 years ago, 2000 to 2002, I was board members assistant, technical assistant of guy my mentor, boss, professor, Dr. Peter Wizner in KPMG, Germany. And with him, I organised a 700 piece conference two and a half days in Berlin, our conference of all the departments of KPMG, where I worked, and he his favourite book, always was Who Moved My Cheese. You know, Who Moved My Cheese, Spencer Johnson, one of those fables, you know about change, and then the book is short. The short summary summary is always short, right? It's a summary there is these two mice. And the two guys everyday go to the same room and there's a lot of cheese. And one day the mice and the guys get into the room. There's no cheat. Corona, Corona. There's no cheese. And what do the mice do? They put on their sneakers, and they run away. What do the humans do? Who stole our cheese? They start complaining. In beginning of March this year, when Spain came I live in Spain in Barcelona outside of Barcelona. When when the lockdown came, and the most obvious Oh, yeah, this is it. I put on my sneakers. And I started to run to find new cheese. And I knew this is online. And for years that the irony of life is as you know that I always said that now online, it's not replacing physical essential stuff, we have to be there, the energy in the room. And now I do online. And the first thing I did 25 YouTube Live sessions on public speaking 25 YouTube Live session, 3037 minutes, somewhere there. And these 14 hours, they changed everything. That was a super big learning curve. And now of course I create my own videos and I will create product, because online is now the evidence. I just talked to my client that a big heating giant in Germany, global giant for heating systems, and with the HR guy, Stephen, and we're now talking about how to move everything online. And I told Stephen, the future of trainers. If you listen to this podcast and you are a trainer, the future will be you must be hybrid. If you're not a hybrid trainer, meaning you're capable to do offline trainings in a room with people and online, just the same way with the same energy with the same enthusiasm with the same result. You out of the game we talked about, we are convinced, I'm convinced. So there is no option put on your sneakers, don't complain about Corona, run, get online, don't forget offline. And in the future, you have a better, better quality,


Francisco Mahfuz 30:17

in how because you know, I understand all the reasons why you didn't want to do it, I share or used to share most of those reasons. So what has surprised you're positively


Florian Mueck 30:27

for other screen, the camera is a good friend now. And this screen, you can do many things I do. This is a podcast, you could don't see me but I can use my hands to replace stage movements, I definitely have the same voice as more much more power on your facial expressions. All this has more, it's more exposed. So of course the gym carries and manners, they have an advantage now and you can play a lot props, I use a lot of props, which on stage, I was at two to three Max because it would be a clown on stage. Now, it's like Netflix here, there's like Amazon Prime motive. This is like a screen. It's like watching a movie or series, you can do many new things, which of course for me, because I love this topic of communication so much. They are so intriguing. And I play and I investigate and find new things. And I want to improve. And that's the beauty about it.


Francisco Mahfuz 31:20

I think most of the things you said there are coming from your side so that the pleasure of the creator of developing the forum of practising things, finding out new tricks. I think what a lot of people are resistant about from from our side when the speaker side is was perhaps less depth and more of the feeling. So you know, how exciting is it to speak in front of an audience when the audience is behind the screen? How have you found that so far?


Florian Mueck 31:52

Well, this brings me back to the 25 YouTube Live sessions. It was hell on earth, the first session I deleted and you shouldn't delete stuff on the web. But I just thought this is so pathetic. Damn it, and when I regretted deleting it, once I deleted it, but then it was too late. Now, but then I have 24 sessions that you can you can watch them. I mean, it's a big learning curve. In the end, it's a new thing. You have to imagine much more the audience through this old black hole here. This in front of you, you see them. And of course big advantage in these zoom meetings and all these Microsoft team meetings and all those go to web meetings, or what's it called? It's you see these people on the screen, so you can play with them. It's it's their advantages even to do that online. But definitely, I won't, I don't want to call it fake it till you make it. I would call it imagination of an audience. Because you feel that they hear you you have to know, you hear me when I talk to you. It's the same in a new wardrobe.


Francisco Mahfuz 32:58

This is something I'm a bit confused about because So one problem I've had when I've done these things, and I've done a few now is not seeing the audience in the sense that, you know, I'm supposed to look at the camera more than I'm looking at the audience. So when I'm looking at the camera, I'm not actually seeing the audience which which I don't like that much. But the sound, it seems to be the norm we've imported into the speaking world, the business norm of everybody being muted, while one person is speaking. But I have no idea why we do that. If it's a speaking presentation, because then we lose that feedback. I mean, why would we not want to get people laughing? Or making whatever sounds they make? Obviously, that puts the onus on people to be quiet and not tap on their phones or, you know, type on the computer?


Florian Mueck 33:46

Or into answer. I don't want to jump question but but I'm in the Rotary Club in Barcelona, Barcelona club of Europe is our name. And we have no meetings. And last Monday, we had 24 people online and our average age is elevated. And it took us a while this was the fourth week now now it's getting now it's becoming a standard. But to get them on Zoom. I mean, that was hell on earth. And of course, when these people have background noises, and they're not aware of that there's background noise and in our club, it happens. There's daughters or dogs barking or the Danny, you don't have that in a normal room when you're a keynote speaker. There's no dogs barking and there is no coffee. You don't have that. So what I would say the new etiquette will evolve that people are responsible for their own rooms. So when there is no noise, I always I never moved myself. I never mute myself.


Francisco Mahfuz 34:41

In our Toastmaster club we've we've had the hardcore training with distraction because obviously we have that choir that sings right above us. So in the middle of your dramatic speech you get you get some village people in the in the background and we've gotten used to that phases phases as any more, but but I have found that strange so far it's this idea that the norm is mute. And and not hearing people speak


Florian Mueck 35:11

to every one of us so it will just evolve, don't you


Francisco Mahfuz 35:14

worry. And do you? Do you get the adrenaline the same way?


Florian Mueck 35:20

No, there is no stage for it.


Francisco Mahfuz 35:22

Yeah, I'm finding that I do to some extent. So I've done I've done I did a Facebook live a couple of weeks ago. And I think a lot of that is also the technical side because I'm so unused to the technical aspects of it that I'm concerned of screwing up completely the tech, right, because you know, I'm definitely gonna be there going to work the microphone fine, is that you know, all of these things that I never have to worry about. But I did find that I get very similar physical feeling to speaking than I do. The speaking itself was easier, perhaps because I'm not seeing anybody. But the prep anyway.


Florian Mueck 35:57

Stage fright is always egocentric. Anyway, you're not there for you. You're there for the audience. Doesn't matter.


Francisco Mahfuz 36:03

You might notice I did not call it stage fright. I called it adrenaline.


Florian Mueck 36:09

Yeah, that is that is a euphemism. It's not a euphemism, because it is adrenaline. It is. It sounds better.


Francisco Mahfuz 36:17

That's our job. Making things sound better,


Florian Mueck 36:20

say public speaking is a bungee jump for free. It's amazing. why people don't jump me


Francisco Mahfuz 36:27

I realise that that I left I let you slide on on something, when the very first question was about the mistakes which now I shall call the the areas for improvement that you notice in all these trainings, right? And then you said, of, of the people I'm training or of myself, and I didn't pick a pick you up on that. Right? So can you just before we before we done? Can you just tell me in all the time that you've been doing this, what are the areas for improvement, or the plus plus that you found in yourself? With, with all the experience you've had so far?


Florian Mueck 37:04

That's a good and tricky question. Because when I reflect on the last 11 years, my first test training was on the third of I think third of July 2009. In Barcelona, I didn't have money to pay the room. So the eight volunteers had to pay the 30 years themselves. That was one of the days. And when I reflect on what happened between then and now, I don't know mean. It's incremental. But now that you asked me, there's one thing because I always participate. And I always get feedback. So I nurture the feedback. We do plus and plus plus good and better. And in one break, a guy came to me and said, Florian, can I give you feedback? And that only happened once and I'm like, wow, shoot. And there was in Barcelona in my favourite training location, Archer Bali with a mosaic floor and you know, beautiful dream location, the guy comes to me and fiddling around with my stuff, and the guys, can I give a feedback and, okay, shoot, and he says, You have sorry, you always say, when you do something spontaneous to say, I'm only freestyling. Now, if you take away that line, you get more power, because you take yourself down. You know, I come up with something spontaneous. Yeah, now I'm only freestyling. And I was like, No, musty. And ever since I didn't save anymore. When I want to say something improve spontaneously, I say it and people. Wow, that's spontaneous. Stuff like that happened a lot. I mean, in subtle ways, what I never did is change my style. I'm absolutely convinced. You know, my my bell curve system or concept of Friedrich Gauss, the bell curve, the normal distribution, statistics. 2.28% think you are an idiot. And that's fact. And then you have another 30 something percent and they think, well, maybe the guys are right, who say is an idiot, but you want 70 to 80%? And if you get that you do that with your own style. So if sometimes people I had people who who left a training, four or five people left a training, they couldn't handle it too tough. As it happens, did I change anything? No. What I improved incrementally is you get better and better with learning patterns. Oh my god, you learn patterns of responses of doubt of question, like you said, but Florian, this is not for business presentations, your metaphors and your storytelling and your five senses. I don't care. This is too emotional. You know when you heard it 27,000 times. You have very good answers. My answer here is the way you do it right now. You bore them to death. It can only be better. You see, you learn all these patterns, but mistakes. Oh, I have one now that you I loved your silence now. You should have seen friends Just gonna on the screen he was like smiling this Murphy smile. Where's your real shit flow? Where's your don't give me all this superficial crap. I did a big mistake. It's a retailer it was in Dusseldorf training in Germany, horse farm very nice, beautiful place. And that lady in the first speech talked about that she had, well, she had a very late child and it was bits, it was sick. So, okay, and then. And then in the speech structure exercise, she didn't give me an example like the Kreuk like the champagne guy, the example. And I said in the in the fire and I said, it gives me some, you must not exam like, you talk about culture, what is culture? What is culture? What is culture, like your boss talking to you about your daughter. And she stopped, sit down. And before lunch, she was gone. There, I lacked the Yeah, the empathy or something to sometimes you have to not say everything. It's difficult when you do it. And I'm very energetic and enthusiastically do everything, and I'm in the fire. But sometimes, I learned to take myself a little bit back. And that was one big lesson I learned.


Francisco Mahfuz 41:22

And I think that's a perfect point to end on. With people want more Florian in their lives? Where can they find it?


Florian Mueck 41:31

Oh, I'm everywhere. Just find me.


Francisco Mahfuz 41:35

I will make that slightly easier for people by putting some links in the show notes. I don't know if it's safe to start looking around for Florian book.


Florian Mueck 41:47

itself celebration. I never sold any book from the room in my fucking life. So yeah, you can do that. Great.


Francisco Mahfuz 41:54

I will do that. Florian. Don't you? Don't you worry. Okay, thank you very much for your time. I think this is great. And I'm pretty sure we haven't exhausted a 10th of what we could have we kind of talked about, so we should try and do it again. Sometimes perhaps in person when again, when in person becomes a thing again.


Florian Mueck 42:13

Oh, I will continue with my online trainings then. Thank you. Interview. Great talking to you and let's keep the public speaking spirit alive. It's a great thing.


Francisco Mahfuz 42:26

That's a wrap everyone. Thanks for tuning in. Take care of yourselves. And until next time



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